was not out of their power, as it unquestionably belonged to their functions, to institute an inquiry, that he assured them was not beyond their reach; and not to consent to throw the last portion of misery into the cup of the people, and thus drive them into despair by refusing the Motion which was now made for an inquiry into the causes of their misery. Mr. Peel said, he wished to notice a most extravagant misconception of the hon. Baronet opposite. The hon. Baronet had charged him with having said, that it was a part of his policy to depress the landed interest. Every one who had heard him, except the hon. Baronet, must know that he had said nothing of the kind. His statement was, that during the war a great portion of inferior land had been brought into cultivation in this country, and that now, by the application of steam to navigation, and by the circumstance of the good land of Ireland and Scotland being better cultivated, the produce of the inferior land of this country was likely to be injured in the market. He had stated this as a fact; and he had added, that whatever might be the benefit to the country, he could not but view the consequences with the utmost pain, so far as they affected those individuals who would suffer from them. The hon. Baronet had entirely mistaken him in supposing that he had stated it as part of his settled policy to depress the landed interest. Sir F. Burdett did not mean to impute any wish of that kind to the right hon. Gentleman, and had only stated that the depression of the landed interest was the necessary consequence of the policy he had determined to pursue. He could assure the right hon. Gentleman that he acquitted him of any such intention, for no doubt there were few men who wished more heartily than the right hon. Gentleman for the prosperity of the landed interest; but there was as little doubt that the policy he had adopted, and that which he declared he intended to pursue, must have the tendency he had ascribed to it. Mr. Peel contemplated no such consequences, and did not believe they would be found to follow from the present policy of the Government. Sir T. Gooch, in explanation, said, that the hon. Baronet had misrepresented him; he had never said that the petitions of the people ought not to be referred to a committee. Mr. F. Lewis said, that he did not much wonder at the opinions of Members who had not been in that House during discussions on the Currency Question, and who now seemed to imagine that a return to a depreciated currency would be a panacea for the evils of the country; but he did much wonder at hearing such opinions fall from the hon. Baronet opposite. He repeated, he could not but feel the utmost surprise at the unqualified praise bestowed by the hon. Baronet on the Bank Restriction Act, and the more so when he recollected that the hon. Baronet sat in that House during the times of that mock prosperity which he alone had eulogized. The hon. Baronet had referred to the wellknown Essay of Hume, but that would not support him in his views in favour of a depreciated currency. In that Essay, Hume stated that the prosperity of the country was connected with prices constantly increasing; but he had not said with a constantly depreciated currency. He had said the contrary indeed; for if the spirit of the Essay was attended to, it would be seen that he never intended to allude to any currency as advantageous to a country if it went on diminishing in value as it increased in amount. Of what avail was it to increase the amount of the currency by continually multiplying the issue of notes, which, exactly as they were multiplied in number, cut off a part of the value from those which had preceded them? The wealth of a country consisted in the abundance of its commodities; increase of commodities required, he knew, an increased amount of currency, but it must be a currency of the same standard and value; and its increase must be created with, and solely in consequence of, the increase of the commodities it represented. The hon. Baronet had been mistaken in asserting that Mr. Tooke had said that prices did not depend on money meaning on the quantity of money. Mr. Tooke had not said any such thing, but had only referred to the difference between the Mint and the market price of gold, as one of the elements of prices in the country. He must confess that he was much surprised at the praise bestowed by the hon. Baronet on that most odious measure into which this country had been driven in her misfortunes to have recourse to-be meant the Bank Restriction Act. The hon. Baronet had proposed to have recourse again to a Paper Currency, seem ing to consider that that would remedy counts had mentioned indications of a the evils under which the landed interest revival in trade, he much feared that a were now suffering. He, like the hon. large portion of the manufacturing and Baronet, was a friend to the landed inter- agricultural interests still remained in abest; but not even for their sake would he solute poverty and destitution. The Mohave recourse to a measure that would be tion for a Committee of the whole House, productive of great injury to every other class however, did not seem in his opinion to in the country. He need not, however, go promise either remedy or relief. They so far as to make that declaration, for he were not told how it was proposed that was satisfied that the return to a depreciated they should carry on their deliberations, currency would not in the least benefit whether by documentary evidence, by exthe agricultural interest. He begged to amination of witnesses at the Bar, or debate remind the hon. Baronet that a depreciated amongst themselves. The causes of the currency could not produce a new demand, distress, and the remedy to be applied, or a new rate of profits; it could only were mere matter of speculation, and the for a time transfer them into different time which they might consume in such an hands. He regretted as much as any man, inquiry as that recommended he conceived the depression of the landed interest, but would be worse than useless, as it would he could not consent that they should be create considerable expense to the country upheld, even if that would be the effect of and lead to no effectual result. Where, he such a measure, by resorting to the depre- asked, were they expected to stop? They ciation of the currency, which created no- were enjoined to treat in full of the Cornthing, and threw the burthen exclusively laws, the Poor-laws, Currency Question, and upon others. The Bank Restriction system principles of Free Trade. Then, of course, had failed by its own weakness already, and it was to be looked for as a natural conseas inevitably would it fail again when they quence, that the hon. Member for Staffordleast expected, if they should be again so shire should introduce the Truck System; infatuated as to trust to it. In speaking of that the hon. Member for Armagh should past depression, those hon. Members who direct their attention to the Bogs of Ireland; had spoken on the other side entirely passed that the hon. Member for Newcastle should over the convulsion of distress which had draw down the whole subject of Emigrabeen produced throughout the country by tion; and lastly, that the hon. Member for the sudden contraction of the currency Newark should enter upon Irish Absenteein 1816. The hon. Baronet had affirmed ism. The proposal for a Select Committee that they might have what prices they he considered infinitely more objectionable pleased, and so certainly they might, if they even than the other. Their proceedings agreed to allow a half-penny to pass for a would be private, unknown to the public guinea. They might have nominal prices, or to the House, and their number must but the real value would necessarily con- be so limited that they could not fairly tinue the same. Although a landlord's represent the opinions of the country, or of rent were by these means quintupled, he Parliament. But the third proposition would soon find himself, under the new which was suggested by the hon. and state of things, worse than he had ever learned Member for Plympton he esteemed been before. The supporters of both the the most hopeless of any. That would propositions before the House appeared have them to appoint a Select Committee to him under the influence of some vague that should be precluded from treating of dream or delusion, which led them to con- the Currency, the very cause to which template the possibility of a fluctuating many Members attributed this distress. standard, which the House he was sure He hoped that Government would go still would never countenance for a moment. further in the reduction of taxation, which they had so laudably commenced, and he should be ready to support a Motion for the introduction of a fair property-tax, let it emanate from what quarter it might. Mr. Stanley said, that as a representative of a great manufacturing and commercial town, which suffered much, he regretted to say, in common with the rest of the same class in other parts of the kingdom, he could not give a silent vote on a Motion having for its avowed object the relief of that distress, the existence of which no person denied. Although the latest ac Mr. Western began, by assuring the House that it was not his intention, at that late hour, to trespass on their attention for many minutes, and would therefore claim an indulgent hearing for the little he had 821 to say. Whatever might be the result of cause. Member for Liverpool had stated, that prices would never fall so low as we had unfortunately experienced them. In 1819 several members who supported government expressed their surprise that any person should be so absurd as to suppose that prices, even if they fell a little, would not speedily again rise, and remain at their former level. The price of corn, it was admitted, might be low for a short time, but it was strenuously contended that it would soon rise to 70s. or 80s. the quarter. Some of these predictions had been verified, and the Gentlemen who proposed and carried the law of 1819 are now proved to have been completely ignorant of what would be its results. Since the war, prices, instead of being steady, have been continually in a state of fluctuation, and they have on the whole fallen a great deal more than ever was expected. He was anxious to press on the attention of the House the impossibility of going on with a gold standard. A time would come when a demand might be made on the Bank for 20,000,000l. which it would be unable to produce, and ruin would ensue. He would not say more, than that the subject was one of the highest importance which could lie under investigation. Colonel Wilson said, that they had been now debating this subject four nights, and were not now much wiser with respect to it than at the commencement of the discussion; and he was sure that if they sat there for a month of Sundays they would be still in the same situation. If the hon. Mover had confined his Motion to the distress of the country he would go to the committee; but there were other matters included in the proposed inquiry which were not necessary. The distress of the country was unprecedented; but Ministers had done much in the way of reduction of taxation, much more than he had expected, or than he should have believed had any body told him of it when he was last on Imputations had his legs in that House. been cast on him by noble Lords and others, that he was sneaking after Ministers, and looking for the loaves and fishes; but he wanted no office or place. He had served his country without emolument; he entered into its service at fifteen years old, as a private soldier-perhaps they did not know that. He had carried "brown bess" on his shoulder for years; but there was only this difference between him and other private soldiers,-that he had the honour and refute them, as he easily might do, there was one so extravagant that he could not pass it over without notice. Some hon. Members on the last evening of that debate had said, that it would be useless to adjourn it, for that they could not expect to hear any novel thought on the subject. The speech of the hon. Baronet, however, had to-night shown them that they were much mistaken; for, to his great surprise, and to the surprise of most others who heard him, the hon. Baronet, the bold-the eloquent-the erudite advocate of the people, he who had distinguished himself in their cause by the bitter sarcasms with which he contended against an attack on their rights,-who was the popular representative of a large and populous city,-who so eagerly desired that the distress of the country should be relieved had that night told them, that reduction of taxation was a thing not to be cared for, but that the whole relief of the country was to be found in high prices. Why, of all the propositions that had ever proceeded from a fertile mind, this was, in his opinion, the one that had the least approximation to intelligence. Yet, at the same time that the hon. Baronet declared this, he also declared himself the friend of the shipping and the manufacturing interests. But in what way, he would beg to ask, could those interests meet the foreign competition against which they had to struggle, except by low prices? He could follow and refute some of the hon. Baronet's other positions, but he wished to keep his promise to the House, and not press farther on its patience. of paying himself, of feeding himself, and of paying for his "brown bess" too. If he were Prime Minister, he would propose a measure of relief: he would throw the whole of the assessed taxes overboard, and have a properly modified property-tax, which should be so laid on as to press on the absentees, and in that way he would afford effectual relief to the country. As to the causes of the distress, he would inform the House, that previously to the ruin of the country bankers in 1826, every farmer had a credit with his banker, so that if he could not sell his stock and his produce, he was neither forced into the market when things were cheap, nor forced to borrow at exorbitant interest, in order to pay his landlord. Now the farmer could get no assistance, and he was either obliged to sell his property at half-price, or neglect to pay his landlord, and so lose farm and all. That change had reduced hundreds of respectable farmers to break stones upon the roads. Never was the country so prosperous as when wheat was selling for 14s. a bushel. The farmers and their wives were then dressed in the best manufactured cloth in the country, and they lived luxuriously. Now they were in tatters, and feeding on butter milk and potatoes. That was a state of things that called for relief, and he hoped Ministers would do away with their own vile measures regulating the currency, before all the agriculturists were entirely ruined. Mr. D. W. Harvey said, that at that late hour it was not his intention to press upon the patience of the House, which he knew was nearly exhausted. He did not therefore intend to go into the subjects Mr. Trant rose amidst loud cries of introduced into the discussion at any length. "Question;" but he said, if he were not He rose rather for the purpose of correcting heard he would move the adjournment of an error, an unintentional one, no doubt, the debate. He stood pledged, at a meetinto which the hon. Member for Essex ing of yesterday, to some of the most rehad fallen. That hon. Member stated spectable gentlemen in London,-members that the people of Essex wished for in- of the committee for the Relief of the Manuquiry; now the fact was, that at the meet-facturing Poor,—that he would state to the ing the other day in Essex inquiry was not called for; the great majority of the people in the country did not wish for inquiry. They knew well enough the cause of the distress they suffered, and they plainly enough pointed out the means of relief. If he were not afraid of trespassing too long on the attention of the House, he would venture to reply to some of the extraordinary arguments raised by the hon. Baronet, the Member for Westminster; but though he would not follow House that which they communicated to him, viz., that, from the information they received by means of their communications with all parts of the country, they were convinced that the distress was overwhelming. These gentlemen ought to have an opportunity of being heard in a committee, in reply to the statements of the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Herries) who spoke so much of the prosperity of the country. Mr. Monck was one of those who looked to a reduction of the taxes on productive industry, and a concurrent diminution of the public expenditure, as the sole sources of national relief. He agreed with the right hon. Member for Liverpool, that if it were meant that we should have a foreign trade, we must have low prices for our manufactures, in order to compete with the foreigner in his own market, and from low prices low wages generally followed. The measure then, for the House to adopt was, so to place the labourer that his low wages may enable him to command the necessaries of life; and that only could be effected by giving him cheap bread, that is, by admitting corn of fertile and untaxed countries into this. Mr. Rickford considered, that the distress of the country fell chiefly on the agricultural classes, and that to them, therefore, relief should be chiefly applied. Mr. Benett was surprised, that when the right hon. Member for Liverpool was quoting instances of the general wealth and prosperity of the country, he did not look to the very obvious proofs to be derived from the consumption of butchers' meat. If the right hon. Gentleman had looked to the consumption of the town of Birmingham alone, he would have found that that consumption had diminished one-third within the last year. He would support the Motion for a Select Committee, as he thought the numerous petitions presented to the House rendered some inquiry imperative. Mr. Alderman Thompson would vote for inquiry, and in doing so would appeal to any hon. Member acquainted with the city of London whether the trade of that city was ever so much depressed as at present? He was free to admit, that. some improvement had taken place within the last fortnight; but it was only that something like a cost price could be obtained for some articles, while a month ago no sale could be effected at any price at all. With reference to the observations of the hon. Member for Bramber a few evenings ago, he begged leave to say, that the hon. Member was in error in asserting that an improvement had taken place in the iron trade. The contrary was the fact, and had been so for the last four or five years, -even milduring which immense sums lions-had been expended in that trade, without obtaining any profit, and even in some instances suffering an actual loss. It was a fallacy to suppose that because manufacturers went on manufacturing, that therefore they were reaping profitable returns to their outlay. Those acquainted Mr. Warburton, was confident that Mi- Mr. Irving [amid loud cries of "Question," in explanation of what had just been alluded to by the hon. Member for the City of London, begged to say that his references to the iron trade were to it as it existed in Sheffield and Birmingham. Sir T. Acland, as a Member of the manufacturing committee, must protest against the statement made in reference to that committee by the hon. Member for Dover. One fact would show, contrary to the declaration of the hon. Member, that the distress had diminished instead of increased within the last few weeks, namely, that whereas heretofore it was found necessary for the committee to meet once a week, now, owing to a diminution of the distress, they met but once a fortnight. Mr. Davenport rose to reply. The question, he said, after all the discussion, turned on the single fact, that numerous petitions from all classes, and all parties, and all places in the country, had been presented to the House for relief, and that if inquiry were refused, the only inference that the public could draw was, that it was useless to again petition a Parliament that 1 |