strong regiment, they also would be able to keep within the capitation grant. In that way both efficiency and economy would be promoted. That was the direction in which they ought to go. He did not want to violently drive the corps into a condition from which they would not stir; for it should be remembered that a Volunteer could leave the Force at 14 days' notice. With regard to amalgamation, he thought that ought to be insisted upon. There were some regiments in a peculiar condition of command which did not give them the complete position of regiments. Corps were part of what were called administrative battalions; and he thought that these ought to be distinctly consolidated into regiments. That was quite a different thing from joining two distinct corps together. Administrative battalions, if consolidated, would make one complete regiment; and hon. Members would see that great advantages would accrue from that taking place. In some cases, these administrative battalions were composed of six or seven companies, and each of those different companies was an independent command, and that could not be right. Each of these companies, being an independent command, had a separate commanding officer, who was in the same position as a commanding officer of a regiment to those under his command. He believed that there were about 130 battalions in this state; and he thought they ought not to be allowed to continue in that condition. Those administrative battalions ought to be consolidated, and great advantage would be experienced by the change. If hon. Members would look into the matter, he was sure that they would find that many advantages would be gained by this plan. It was the desire of the Government to do this in the interests of the Volunteer Force; and he hoped that all who took an interest in the Force would rather favour these reforms than set their minds against them. As regarded Artillery Volunteers, he might state that his right hon. and gallant Friend the Secretary of State for War had caused inquires to be made to ascertain whether suitable sites could not be found for a School of Instruction for them. When that had been done, Artillery Volunteers from the North of England would be enabled to go into camp without having to go down to the South for their instruction.

MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN was sure that the Committee must have heard with very great interest the speech of his hon. and gallant Friend. He wished to know, however, whether the views which the hon. and gallant Gentleman had put forward were only the proposals of the Committee, or whether they expressed the decision of the Government? In his observations, he passed from speaking in one capacity into another. The House, and the country, and the Volunteers wished to know what parts of the Report of the Committee the Government was going to adopt, and what action they were going to take upon it? He would take the matters in their order. And, first, with regard to the organization of the Volunteers. Were the Government going to consolidate administrative battalions? He agreed in thinking that that was a thing which ought to be done gently and carefully. It was a common thing to say that the whole of our Army was a delicate machine; but no part of it was so delicate as the Volunteer Force. If any attempt was made to force the Volunteers they would melt under their hands. He agreed that in many cases consolidated battalions would be an advantage; but to enforce consolidation would be in some cases fatal. Although administrative battalions had many disadvantages, yet, in many parts of the country, if they put an end to the organization of the administrative battalions, the whole regiment would melt away. With respect to the question of adjutants, he was not a very strong advocate of their claims, though he thought that it might be advisable in the public interest that they should have an increased retiring allowance. He should like to know whether he rightly understood that the War Office had determined to give this increased allowance, and that the Treasury had assented and agreed to its being done? That was a matter of importance, which ought to be cleared up by the right hon. and gallant Gentleman the Secretary of State for War. The same thing might be said with regard to the allowance for going into camp-he listened very carefully, and he did not understand whether an additional allowance for going into camp had actually been decided upon and approved by the Treasury. For his own part, he entirely approved of an

increased allowance being given. The Volunteers had done so well that they ought not to grudge them any money which they might require for any useful purpose. Then he came to the much disputed question of the colour of the clothing. Had the Government determined upon the course which his hon. and gallant Friend had stated - that scarlet, as the national colour, should be the recognized colour of the uniform for all Volunteers in all cases, except where the Regular regiment belonging to the district was otherwise clothed; and that all corps which preferred other colours were to be put at a disadvantage in having to pay for their own clothing, instead of getting it at a cheaper rate from the Government? He was not going to express a strong opinion in favour of one colour or another. He thought both ought to be allowed to continue, and that individual localities should suit their own tastes in the matter. He must, however, demur to one expression of an hon. and gallant Gentleman with regard to scarlet. The hon. and gallant Gentleman seemed to think that scarlet was the national colour. As he understood it, that was a popular delusion; the original national colour of the English Army was a drabbish grey. A buff grey was the colour in which Marlborough's victories were won scarlet was only the livery of the House of Hanover, which was adopted when that House came to the Throne. Still, undoubtedly, scarlet had been consecrated by subsequent victories. He thought, therefore, that there was no reason to call one colour more national than the other. There were advantages on the side of gray which scarlet did not possess; but scarlet, on the other hand, had its advantages. The matter was, however, of a very delicate nature, for it was very dangerous to try to force any corps into a particular colour of uniform. He would like to hear from his right hon. and gallant Friend what decision the Government had really come to with regard to the whole question, and how far they might accept the statement which they had listened to with so much interest from the hon. and gallant Member for Berks as the decision of the Government upon the points in question.

SIR THOMAS ACLAND stated that he had served for 40 years in the Volunteer Force, and for 20 years had been Mr. Campbell-Bannerman

colonel of an administrative battalion. He was not prepared to say that there was any distinct advantage from consolidating administrative battalions into a regiment.

On the other hand, he thought there was considerable advantage in the present system, by its taking off the shoulders of the commanding officer of the administrative battalion much of the unpopularity which would attach to a command. No doubt, to a certain extent, there was something to be said for a consolidated system; but with a very large experience of the kind of corps in question, he had no hesitation in warning the Government to be very careful before interfering with them. He had paid very great attention to this matter, and he had worked up the regulations upon the subject with very great care. And he had considerable practical experience as to the mode in which the present system worked. Under the present system, the commanders of the different corps forming an administrative battalion in agricultural districts might be bank managers, or country gentlemen, or other persons of reputation in the district in which their corps was situated, and it was essential that their authority should be maintained in the districts in which they resided. He thought that the position

If

of a colonel of an administrative battalion was far stronger under the present system than it would be if such a corps was consolidated into a regiment. anything went wrong at the present time, the commandant of one of the corps forming the battalion reported the matter to the colonel in command of the battalion; and if it were of sufficient importance, the colonel reported it to the Under Secretary of State; and his authority by that system was far stronger than it would be if he had the details of discipline before him in the case of every individual corps. That was the result of his experience; and he thought that the position of the colonels of administrative battalions was better at the present time than it would be if a change were made in the direction of consolidation. With regard to the subject of clothing, he did not wish to enter into it. But he would urge upon the Government to remember one thing, and that was, that as soon as a man was off parade he ought to have nothing to do but to brush his clothes and to put them

MR. WHITWELL inquired whether any resolution had been come to with regard to limiting the numbers of the Volunteers?

COLONEL STANLEY said, that, as regarded the increase of numbers, they did not at present intend to exceed the number which the Committee put as the maximum. If the Force continued to increase in the same ratio as it had done for the last five years, it would increase yearly, at a cost to the country at something like the expense of a battalion of Infantry. Whereas, in 1873-4, the Force cost £414,000, the expenditure on account of it now amounted to £512,000. He did not object to the increased expenditure; but, at the same time, he could not help saying that there was a point at which an expenditure of this kind ought to be very carefully considered. There was another point which he ought to mention. At the present time, an establishment of Volunteer corps contained a number of supernumeraries. It was a custom that where a certain number of these had been got together an application should be made for forming them into an extra company or battery. It was proposed in the future to deal with applications of that kind at a certain period of the year; in that way it was proposed to grant the applications in respect of the better corps, and to refuse them in the case of less good corps.

Question put, and agreed to.
House resumed.

Resolution to be reported To-morrow, at Two of the clock.

Committee to sit again upon Wednesday.

CUSTOMS AND INLAND REVENUE

BILL.-[BILL 150.]

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said, that if it was intended, on the third reading of this Bill, to raise a question on the Expenditure in South Africa, the third reading must be fixed at some future day; but when he could not at that moment say.

Bill, as amended, considered.

Bill to be read the third time Tomorrow, at Two of the clock.

INDIAN MARINE BILL.-[BILL 182.] (Mr. Edward Stanhope, Mr. John G. Talbot.) SECOND READING. [ADJOURNED DEBATE.]

Order read, for resuming Adjourned Debate on Question [19th May], "That the Bill be now read a second time."

Question again proposed.
Debate resumed.

MR. ONSLOW objected to the Bill being read a second time, inasmuch as he had asked the Under Secretary of State for India whether a Committee could not be appointed to consider the expenditure upon the Indian Marine? The Marine expenditure was increasing very much in India, and money was not only spent upon it, but also upon the Royal Navy. He thought that the expenditure upon the Indian Marine and upon the Royal Navy performing duty in Indian waters should be considered before this Bill was passed. If his hon. Friend could give an assurance that there was not to be a double expenditure in respect to the Navy in India, and that an Indian Marine was required to do the same duties that the Royal Navy was now paid for performing, he should have no objection to the Bill passing. But, as the matter at present stood, this Bill seriously affected the finances of India.

MR. E. STANHOPE said, that this

Henry Selwin-Ibbetson.)

CONSIDERATION.

Order for Consideration, as amended,

read.

MR. RYLANDS inquired when it was intended to take the third reading of the Colonel Stanley

The Bill was only for the purpose of enabling discipline to be enforced upon such part of the Indian Marine as it was found necessary to employ in addition to the Royal Navy. He would propose an Amendment to strike some words from the Preamble of the Bill, which he