trious Duke and others, determined on the names of those of whom it would be composed, and he hoped those names would be very shortly laid on the Table of the House. He was not, however, prepared to lay them on the Table that evening; while as to the instructions, he did not think it would be fair to the Committee, in the case of an inquiry of such delicacy, or convenient to the Public Service, that they should be produced. The Committee, he had every reason to hope, would soon meet. They would probably not occupy a very long time in prosecuting their labours, and the result of their deliberations would then be laid before Parliament. who had been six years in the Army, there would have been a very different show of the Reserve on that occasion. He was fully conscious that many shortcomings would be perceived in his administration of the War Department. He found on entering upon it that measures had been passed with great care and caution by the Parliament of this country which had instituted a particular system. He felt certain, from the very beginning, that a sudden change would be as inconsistent with the safety of the Army as it would be inconsistent with the interests of the country. He, therefore, determined to give the best aid he could to a full deVISCOUNT CRANBROOK said, that velopment of the system set on foot. In as the administration of the Army by many respects he might have acted differhim, as a Member of the Government, ently from the way in which his noble had been attacked, he wished to say a Friend (Viscount Cardwell) would have few words, although it might seem done if he had been in Office; but his unnecessary that he should do so, object was to develop the system, and seeing that the noble Lord opposite bring it to as great perfection as possible. (Lord Truro), as well as his noble And when he was told now that the Friend behind him (the Earl of Gallo- system was rotten, and that everything way), from whom the attack came, about the Army was rotten, he utterly semed to hold perfectly opposite views denied that that assertion had any on the subject-the one being of opinion foundation in fact. If the Afghanistan that the system which had been estab- War was merely a military promenade, lished by his Predecessor at the War as the noble Lord (Lord Truro) said, Office was perfect, while the other main- that was owing to the fact that it was tained that it was absolutely rotten. carefully and methodically pre-arranged Still, it might appear disrespectful not and carried out by soldiers who were to notice the personal attack of the competent to discharge the duty. He noble Lord opposite. The noble Lord entirely differed from the view that a opposite had, he believed, commanded war must be considered unsuccessful, several regiments, and if he had con- or a mere promenade, because it had tinued to command them, it was pro- not led to an infinity of battles and bable that he should have heard from bloodshed. On the contrary, he thought him more soldierly advice than he had the skill of a general was more shown given that evening with regard to wait- in bringing a war to a successful tering for six years to pass men into the mination without disaster and without Reserve. There were countries when bloodshed. He did not deny that the men, after one year's service, passed system had its defects, nor that they did into the Reserve; but there was abun- not get a great many young soldiers; dant military authority for saying that but he was prepared to say that if it a soldier might be thoroughly trained had been arranged, as it would be in in three years, and, after such service, a European war, to mingle the Remight be advantageously passed into serves with the regiments, we should the Reserve. It had been tested by have presented as strong a front as at experience; and he ventured to ask any period of our history. The evil military men who had seen the Reserve of young soldiers entering the Army Force when called out last year, whether at premature ages was not one which the three years' men had not presented was connected with short service alone; a thoroughly soldierly appearance? He but it had been connected with recruitcould appeal to the illustrious Duke's ing at all times, because it happened personal inspection of them. If the noble that in this country employments were Lord's advice had been followed, and readily found, and when men of 19 or the Reserves had consisted only of men 20 obtained employment, they did not turn from those pursuits to enter into the Army. The question of recruiting would be very properly considered by the Committee. He ought not to detain their Lordships; but with regard to the attacks which had been made upon him, he might observe that as they had been made by both sides upon exactly opposite grounds they could not be right, and he did not think that he was altogether wrong. LORD DORCHESTER said, if the nomination of a Committee took five weeks, the question was, indeed, a difficult one to decide, and the difficulties of searching into it must be far greater than there was any reason to suppose. An eminent General had been sent for to preside over this Committee; but he was ordered by the civil power-the Secretary of State-entirely unknown to the illustrious Duke (the Duke of Cambridge), to a mixed command in South Africa. If rumour was correct, the Committee was to be composed of men who were committed to the present system, and who, therefore, would not be likely to report against it. He thought it necessary that the names of the Committee should be speedily known. LORD WAVENEY said, one of the points which it would be necessary for the Committee to inquire into was the subject of recruiting in agricultural districts. He had the honour of commanding an agricultural brigade of Artillery for 25 years, and he could say that at present the men were superior in intelligence and physical development to those whom he first received into the ranks. There was an improved disposition as to binding themselves with regard to the Reserve; but as to volunteering for the war in South Africa, the Return he had to make was nil. He hoped the Committee would go fully into the question of recruiting. The point was how to retain the old soldier in the Service. Above all things, he trusted the Committee would consider what was the enormous friction of a great war machine, and how soon a campaign in the field frittered away the best of the strength of the Army. VISCOUNT CARDWELL said, much had been stated with regard to the Committee being entirely a military one, and that it would leave out a large part of what ought to be included. He had no such apprehension. He knew by whom Viscount Cranbrook the Committee was to be composed. The noble Lord who, he understood, was to be President, Lord Airey-there was, perhaps, no harm in mentioning the name was an experienced soldier, who would never forget the absence of a Reserve in the Crimean War. He (Viscount Cardwell) had confidence in Lord Airey, and he was sure the day would never come when that gallant soldier would forget the absolute necessity of a Reserve when the Army was in the field. In Lord Airey's hands the fate of the inquiry was safe. He hoped and believed that it was intended to make this inquiry, not superficial, but complete; and except upon the supposition that it was to be a complete inquiry he should be fearful of the result, for he knew the prejudices with which an inquiry of this kind had to contend. With these few final words, he commended the Committee to the approval of their Lordships. House adjourned at a quarter before Eight o'clock, till To-morrow, half past Ten o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Monday, 16th June, 1879. MINUTES.]-SUPPLY-considered in Committee -ARMY ESTIMATES, Votes 1 to 6. EAST INDIA REVENUE ACCOUNTS-considered in Committee-Resolution [June 13] reported. PUBLIC BILLS-Second Reading-Indian Marine [182]; Salmon Fishery Law Amendment (No. 2) [188]. Committee Report Common Law Procedure and Judicature Acts Amendment [181]. Considered as amended-Customs and Inland Revenue [150]; Bills of Sale (Ireland)' Withdrawn-Church of Scotland* [39]. [45]. the Ordinance of 1879, giving power to | but with regard to what we propose to the Cyprus Government to exile persons do, I have some little difficulty on acwithout trial; the Ordinance of 1878, count of the course of Business. It is prohibiting the sale of land in Cyprus essential that we should make that Stateto all persons not British or Turkish ment soon, and obtain the authority of subjects; and the Ordinance of 1879, the House for the issue of what will be raising special taxation on all lands left necessary for next year of the Public uncultivated, and forfeiting unclaimed Works Loan. If we do not obtain that lands to the Government? authority early in July, there will be serious difficulty, because there will be no funds to carry on the works. I hope, therefore, we may be able next weeksay on Thursday week-to bring forward that proposal, and I shall connect it with the Public Works Loan Bill now before the House, trusting to introduce into that Bill a clause to give us the necessary powers. MR. BOURKE, in reply, said, he would place in the Library of the House Copies of the Ordinances referred to by the hon. Baronet; but he did not propose to lay them on the Table. IRELAND-THE FISHERIES OF SLIGO MAJOR O'BEIRNE asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland, If it would not be desirable to hold an investigation into the manner in which the fisheries of the Sligo Fisheries and the Bonet River, County Leitrim, have been managed by Mr. Brady, Inspector of Fisheries, having regard to the fact that it has been shown by a Return furnished to the Government, at an inspection ordered by the Chief Secretary for Ireland, that the quantity of salmon taken in these fisheries has considerably diminished since the year 1862 up to the present date, in consequence of bye-laws enacted by Mr. Brady, Inspector of Fisheries? MR. J. LOWTHER: Sir, I have not yet been able to get a full Report. If the Question is repeated, I shall be able to say more in a few days. I find an inquiry has been held into the matter by three Inspectors; so that the name of Mr. Brady ought only to be mentioned in conjunction with that of his colleagues. MR. CHAMBERLAIN asked, If the Government intended to withdraw the Public Works Loan Bill now before the House? THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHE QUER: No; the Bill I now refer to is the annual Bill authorizing the advances of the Commissioners. INDIA PETITION OF MR. WILLIAM TAYLER - SIR FREDERICK HALLIDAY.-QUESTIONS. MR. STAVELEY HILL asked the Under Secretary of State for India, with reference to a Petition presented to the House in February last by Mr. William Tayler, to which the attention of the House is to be called on the 1st proximo by the honourable Member for South Warwickshire, and in which the conduct of Sir Frederick Halliday, formerly Lieutenant Governor of Bengal, is seriously impugned, Whether any statement of the case has been submitted to the Secretary of State by Sir Frederick Halliday; and, if so, whether there will be LOCAL FINANCE - ANNUAL STATE- any objection to lay such statement upon the Table of the House? MENT-THE PUBLIC WORKS LOAN BILL.-QUESTIONS. MR. PELL asked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, When Her Majesty's Government desire to make the Annual Statement on Local Finance which it was understood would be considered at the same time as the Budget? THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: Sir, my hon. Friend asks when we "desire to make the Statement to which he refers in his Question. We desire, of course, to make it as soon as possible; SIR EARDLEY WILMOT asked the Under Secretary of State for India, Whether the statement of Sir Frederick Halliday, referred to by the honourable and learned Member for Staffordshire, is a reply to the Petition of Mr. William Tayler, presented in February last to this House; or, whether it is a reply of some standing to memorials presented by Mr. Tayler to successive Secretaries of State, and especially to a Memorial addressed by him to the Duke of Argyll in 1868 ? MR. E. STANHOPE: Sir, it is true that a statement has been prepared by Sir Frederick Halliday, at my request, in view of the debate to be brought on by my hon. Friend the Member for South Warwickshire. It refers to a number of official documents contained in many volumes at the India Office. The question of producing that statement, or the official documents generally, is one of great difficulty. On the one hand, Sir Frederick Halliday, after many years of useful public service in India, has been exposed to violent attacks in several pamphlets, and I venture to express my respect for the forbearance which he has displayed, knowing that he could only defend himself by official documents. But, on the other hand, no public matter is involved, the Motion of the hon. Member for South Warwickshire raises no such question; and, therefore, my noble Friend does not, upon the whole, consider himself justified, either in producing the statement or the Papers generally, or in putting the country to the great expense of printing them. NORTHERN BORNEO CESSION OF TERRITORY.-QUESTIONS. MR. W. E. FORSTER asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether the cession of territory in Northern Borneo to a British Trading Company would, if approved by Her Majesty's Government, involve any responsibility on the part of this country; and, if so, what responsibility? MR. BOURKE: Sir, the approval of this proposed cession would not, as far as we know, involve any responsibility on the part of this country other than the general responsibility which devolves on Her Majesty's Government of affording protection to British subjects in all parts of the world, so far as circumstances permit. But Her Majesty's Government have not at present given any such approval. MR. W. E. FORSTER: Will the hon. Gentleman inform the House, why the approval of Her Majesty's Government is asked, if there is no responsibility incurred? MR. BOURKE: That is a Question rather for the persons who ask for the approval, than for Her Majesty's Go vernment. REPRODUCTIVE LOAN FUND (IRELAND)—LOANS TO CLARE FISHERMEN.-QUESTION. LORD FRANCIS CONYNGHAM asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland, If it is true that several cases have lately occurred in Clare County, where, default having been made by fishermen in the repayment of an instalment of money borrowed by them from the Irish Reproductive Loan Fund, they have been forced by legal process not only to repay the sums remaining undischarged, but also to pay over again the instalments which they had already paid before default? MR. J. LOWTHER: Sir, I do not find that the matters have proceeded to the extremity the noble Lord's Question seems to indicate; but there were some difficulties of a legal character with regard to these loans. The Board of Works have been asked to report on the matter, and arrangements have been made which I hope will obviate all difficulties in the future. IRELAND-VOTE FOR CHIEF SECRE TARY'S OFFICE.-QUESTION. MAJOR O'BEIRNE asked the Secretary to the Treasury, When Vote 35, Class 2, Chief Secretary for Ireland's Offices, will be taken? SIR HENRY SELWIN-IBBETSON: I feel that I can give no very definite answer to the Question of the hon. and gallant Member. The Vote will be taken as soon as we are able to fix a day for commencing with Irish Votes, and Class 2 will be taken when we have disposed of Votes in Class i. JAMAICA-COOLIES.-QUESTION. MR. MACDONALD asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies, If his attention has been directed to a paragraph in the "New York Times," dated 30th May, which stated that a ship had arrived at Kingston, Jamaica, to carry back Coolies who had been serving under an indenture for employers in the parish of Charleston, and who, during the time of their servitude, had deposited large sums of money in the hands of the immigration agent for safe keeping; whether, on asking for it, they were told he could not pay it to them, and they were thereby defrauded; if it be true that the Governor of Jamaica refused to give protection to the immigrants in the matter, though the Chief Justice had stated they were entitled to be paid; and, further, if they have been paid? SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH: Sir, the hon. Member has been good enough to send me the article in The New York Times upon which this Question is based. I had heard reports that a sub-immigration agent in Jamaica had improperly received money, by himself or his son, from the Coolies for whom he was responsible; but I knew nothing of the other statements quoted from the article, and I have at once directed the Governor to supply me with a full report on the subject. EGYPT-MR. VIVIAN-THE PAPERS. QUESTIONS. MR. OTWAY asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether Mr. Vivian has been recalled from his post as Consul General in Egypt; and, if so, for what reason; whether Mr. Adams has been appointed to succeed Mr. Vivian; and, when the Papers relating to Egyptian matters will be laid upon the Table of the House? MR. WHITWELL asked, if Mr. Lascelles was acting as Consul General? MR. BOURKE: He will perform the same functions which he performed before. I cannot understand that his position will be in any way different from that which Mr. Vivian's has been. THE RAILWAY COMMISSION BILL LEGISLATION.-QUESTION. MR. MONK asked the President of the Board of Trade, Whether he is prepared to name a day on which he will ask leave to introduce the proposed Railway Commission Bill? VISCOUNT SANDON, in reply, said, he was not surprised at the anxiety manifested by the hon. Gentleman; but, in the present state of Public Business, it was impossible to name a day. It would be impossible, however, for Her Majesty's Government to allow the powers of the Royal Commission to lapse this year; and he was as anxious as the hon. Gentleman was to bring in the Bill; but he could not name a day. VICTORIA—THE CONSTITUTIONAL QUESTION.-QUESTION. MR. BOURKE: No, Sir; Mr. Vivian MR. A. MILLS asked the Secretary has not been recalled from his post. of State for the Colonies, When his deMr. Vivian has been permitted to come spatch to Lord Normanby, relating to home for a short time on private affairs the differences between the two Houses --affairs strictly of a private character of the Legislature of the Colony of Vicbut it is not likely that Mr. Vivian's toria, will be laid upon the Table of the return to Egypt will be delayed beyond House; and, whether any further Correa few weeks. With regard to the next spondence has taken place on the subQuestion, Mr. Adams has not been ap-ject since that already presented to Parpointed to succeed Mr. Vivian; but Mr. liament? Lascelles, who for some time discharged Mr. Vivian's duties when he was absent for a short time, will again discharge the duties now. With regard to the Papers on Egyptian affairs, Her Majesty's Government have considered the subject very carefully, and are most anxious to produce them; but they are of opinion, under existing circumstances, that it would not be to the public interest to do so at the present moment. MR. OTWAY asked when they would be produced? MR. BOURKE: It depends on the communications now going on, when the Papers can be produced. The circumstances, I need not say, are not altogether in the control of Her Majesty's Government. SIR MICHAEL HICKS - BEACH: Sir, the despatch to Lord Normanby should reach Melbourne in about 10 days from this time, and I propose shortly after that date to present it, together with other Correspondence on the subject, to Parliament. NAVY-COALING AT ST. VINCENT'S. QUESTION. COLONEL BERESFORD asked the First Lord of the Admiralty, How many tons of coal were supplied to the Transports at St. Vincent for the voyage to the Cape, at what price per ton it was supplied, and how many days each Transport was delayed in order to obtain the necessary quantity? |