advised by the Law Officers of the Crown | are denied him by the Dean and Chapter, that the appointment of Mr. Fleming to I am ready to advise that he shall have the canonry was perfectly legal, they those rights and privileges asserted. declined to take any further step. Cer- Before I do so, however, his rights must tainly, when I heard from my noble be denied him. The Dean and Chapter Friend that the question which he have involved us in a most painful and has brought before your Lordships is lengthy correspondence-painful, only, a most painful question, and that because it is lengthy; but they have no there is a chance, in consequence of its case whatever. They are really setting having been raised, of Canon Fleming's up the memory of an ancient custom resigning the important and well-de- against the statute law of the Realm. served preferment which he has gained, No one can be more interested than myI must say that nothing could give self in Mr. Fleming's possession of all me more pain than if a man so dis- his rights and privileges, as I am retinguished were by any misunderstand-sponsible for having advised the Crown ing between the most rev. Primate to nominate that gentleman to his post. the Archbishop of the Province and the I believe he will be an honour to the Dean and Chapter to be deprived of a position which he occupies; and if any position which he is calculated eminently member of the Chapter of York attacks to adorn. I will ask your Lordships' his rights and privileges-if they prepermission to read a few questions which vent him from voting when there is a I have placed upon paper, and which meeting of the Chapter, or if they prewill make the exact situation of affairs vent him from residing or preaching, clear. Are the privileges of Canon or in any way impugn the undoubted Fleming denied? First, as to his vote. and legal rights which he possesses as In a letter dated the 3rd of October, canon residentiary of York-I am the 1877, Mr. Fleming writesperson who will be first ready to take his cause. "I claimed my place in the chapter to-day and voted. The Dean allowed me to vote, for I asked him whether he acknowledged my vote, and he replied "Certainly.' As to Mr. Fleming's stipend, he has always been paid a stipend. As to his residence, he has resided regularly. As to his preaching and this is important, for he is one of the most eloquent preachers I have ever listened to well, Mr. Fleming has preached, though there did appear an anonymous paragraph which said that he did so only by courtesy, but which was not traced to any authority. The Law Officers assert that Canon Fleming's admission has been complete and formal, and that no complaint can be made based upon the form of the oaths of admission. Under these circumstances, what is the conclusion that it seems must inevitably be drawn? It is that Mr. Fleming is as good a canon as any canon of any cathedral, and that he enjoys all his privileges. As to the conduct of the most rev. Primate the Archbishop of the Province, it is clear that, as far as his communication with the Government has gone, he has acted under legal advice. My Lords, I can only say, if Mr. Fleming is placed in a painful position, that I am here to defend him; and that if his rights and privileges are not admitted or, at least, up The THE ARCHBISHOP OF YORK said, he only rose to say a few words, lest the noble Lord who had brought this subject before the House (Lord Hampton) should think his silence disrespectful. This was not a new controversy, for it had, in fact, been going on for 15 years. He would quote several instances which showed that that was the case. first occurred in 1864, when the Dean and Chapter ignored the Act of Parliament altogether, and elected a canon by the old process, under which nobody was collated as a residentiary canon, but under which one went through the process of "protesting one's residence," and thus became a residentiary canon. The Act of Parliament provided that any priest who had been in Priest's Orders for six years could be collated a canon residentiary; but the Dean and Chapter preferred their own custom of only making prebendaries canons residentiary. He had taken legal advice in reference to this matter, and those whom he had consulted, in every case said that the statute, in its plain, obvious meaning, did away with the ancient custom. Dr. Jones was collated in July, 1873, but not installed, and the same course was adopted in the next casenamely, that of Dr. Thorold in February, Beaconsfield), the Dean and Chapter used some expression of this kind-" We cannot admit we have done what we have not done"-that was, they could not admit that they had refused the vote. Well, according to that, Mr. Fleming had his vote; and, in one point, he had taken the matter in rather a wrong point of view. He was a man of great eminence, and the choice of the Crown might well fall upon him. Since Mr. Fleming had been in York, notwithstanding the somewhat cold and sus 1874. In that which followed, Mr. | respondence with the noble Earl at the Forester was admitted in December, head of the Government (the Earl of 1874, and without being a prebendary he was installed-the first case of the kind on record. But there, it was known that if installation was refused, legal proceedings would be adopted; and then followed the case so fully explained by the noble Earl (the Earl of Beaconsfield). The question, which had just been so luminously dealt with, might be reduced to this-had a canon so appointed a right to vote in chapter, and whether any but residentiary canons had a right to vote? In the Act it was provided that a "canon" should be understood through-picious atmosphere of the place, no out as a "residentiary canon,' ," and it would be seen by the Act that he had full power to vote in the chapter. In the present case, the Dean and Chapter obtained a doubtful opinion from Sir Robert Phillimore on the whole case; but, in reply to the question "Would such residentiary become by virtue of his office a member of Chapter, not having ever been elected to a vacant prebend-in fact, has the Archbishop of York the power to increase the number of members of the chapter?" -He said "I incline to the opinion that he would be a member of the Chapter." He (the Archbishop of York) had been applied to as to whether he would not present Mr. Fleming to the vacant prebend. Well, he did not see how his doing so would remove the difficulty. In 1877 Mr. Fleming voted, and he either voted in his right, or he did not. If he did not vote in his own right, he was an intruder; and his receiving, in 1879, a perfect appointment would not mend the matter. It was not a question whether he had the right of appointment, or the Crown, or the Dean and Chapter; the question was, whether the matter was to remain in a state of muddle? He had asked Mr. Fleming whether his vote was taken, and he said that there was so much confusion, so many people were talking at once, that he could not say whether his vote had or had not been taken. Then he asked the same question of the dean, and he replied that he had prepared a statement, which he would send him, and it was sent to him, and to many of their Lordships as well. It made out that he (the Archbishop of York) had done some very sad things, with very painful effects; but it did not say a word as to whether Mr. Fleming had voted. In their corThe Archbishop of York person had so rapidly gained the hearts and affections of the people as Mr. Fleming had. He was not aware that he had been forbidden to preach; but if that were so, he (the Archbishop of York) would undertake to find him enough preaching within the ambit of York to last him till that time next year. But Mr. Fleming had taken the matter in the painful point of view. After all, it was a principle of law. Why had he not appointed Mr. Fleming to the vacant prebendal stall? Because there was not the least necessity for it. He had now every possible privilege he could then have; and it was not desirable, after 15 years, that this dispute should be prolonged. Up to his appointment, he had not seen Mr. Fleming, though he had known him very well ever since. He could not appoint a clergyman he did not know. The Crown looked over a broader space; he was concerned only with his own diocese, and appointed Mr. Landon, who bore a distinguished name. The question, as he said, was one of dry law, and it was very undesirable that this scandal, for it had almost become a scandal, should go on festering among them. The course taken by the Crown appeared to him to be perfectly straightforward and reasonable. The Dean and Chapter had been offered every facility for raising the question, and they had refused to do so. It was for their Lordships to say whether the case was one for a new Act of Parliament. For his part, a new Act did not appear to be necessary. There was another case which was on all fours with the present, that of the Dean and Chapter of Chichester. The Dean and Chapter belonged to an old cathedral. The present Bishop took precisely the same course he (the Arch "As at York, there was no stall appropriated to a canon residentiary; but the Dean and Chapter made arrangements for a stall. As at York, there was no preaching turn for a canon residentiary; but Mr. B., like his brethren, supplied, in his turn, the place of an absenting prebendary. The difference between York under Dean Duncombe, and Chichester under Dean Hook, seems to be this. The Chapters of both cathedrals have been aware of their power of raising an obstruction; the Chapter of York showed their ability in making the most of it, the Chapter of Chichester in breaking it down." CONVENTION (IRELAND) ACT RE- (The Lord O'Hagan.) COMMITTEE. Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee, read. Moved, "That the House do now resolve itself into Committee upon the said Bill."(The Lord O'Hagan.) LORD ORANMORE AND BROWNE said, that the Act proposed to be repealed was passed by the Irish Parliament in 1797, and he would like to know why it was to be abolished, seeing that recently there had been meetings in Ireland of a Communistic character? He thought that Ireland was in a less satisfactory state now than it had been for some years past; and, therefore, he could not understand why the Act should be repealed. LORD O'HAGAN said, the Bill was only intended to repeal legislation which had become entirely obsolete, and came the sanction of the Government, but before their Lordships, not only with the unanimous approval of the House of Commons. Motion agreed to; House in Committee. Bill reported without Amendment; an Amendment made; and Bill to be read 3a House in Committee (according to To-morrow. Order). EARL SPENCER said, that this was a Bill for making a close time in Ireland for hares, and he would like to have some explanation from those who had charge of the Bill as to the necessity for such a measure, which would make the law in Ireland different to that in England, and might lead to considerable difficulties. THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY also con sidered that there should be a statement made as to the expected operations of the Bill. THE EARL OF COURTOWN said, that the Bill would not be objected to by the farmers of Ireland, as hares were nearly extinct in that country. LORD ORANMORE AND BROWNE said, that he had a good supply of hares on his property, and thought it would be injurious to prevent hares being killed where there were growing crops. Amendments made: the Report thereof to be received on Thursday next. SPAIN-CONTRABAND TRADE AT GIB. 66 QUESTION. OBSERVATIONS. THE DUKE OF ST. ALBANS rose to call attention to the case of the 'Rosslyn," and asked, What instructions are given to the police and Custom authorities at Gibraltar to prevent contraband trade with Spain; and, whether Her Majesty's Government will lay upon the Table any recent Correspondence relative to this question or to a demarcation of the waters of the Bay of Gibraltar? The noble Duke said, the Rosslyn, as appeared by a letter from Lloyd's agent, published in the newsreceived several tons of tobacco at Gibpapers, was a British ship, which had raltar to transfer to another vessel off the coast of Spain. On arriving at the rendezvous, however, the Rosslyn, instead of finding her consort, was seized by Spanish guarda-costas and taken into Cadiz. Mr. Perry, the English Consul, demanded and obtained her release-on | mendations had been embodied in an what grounds it was not stated. But it Order in Council which was issued in was to be hoped that such an act of 1878. An increased fine was imposed open smuggling could not be committed for landing goods after dark, and the under the British Flag with impunity. Governor stated that smuggling had It was well known that contraband materially diminished in consequence. trade was carried on with Spain to a Any later Correspondence than that alconsiderable extent from Gibraltar. He ready laid on the Table could not be would not enter into the question how conveniently produced. Correspondence far Spanish officials connived at this; was in progress with reference to the debut it seemed to him that, if it was ne- marcation of the waters; but it was of cessary that we should hold Gibraltar, a confidential nature at present, and we ought to make our position there could not, therefore, be produced. as little galling as possible to Spain. If a corresponding state of things existed in the Isle of Wight, this country would certainly not be disposed to tolerate it. Those of their Lordships who knew Gibraltar would be aware of the constant disputes and reprisals which the uncertainty existing as to the limits of British and Spanish waters gave rise to and he should be glad to hear that there was some likelihood of the maritime jurisdiction of the two countries in this respect being defined. Our legitimate trade with Spain was of considerable importance. His personal experience was that an English vessel was received in a Spanish port with kindness and courtesy; and he hoped to be told that the British Government were prepared to do all that lay in their power to prevent the good understanding between the two countries being jeopardized by the existence of a state of things at Gibraltar such as the scandal of the Rosslyn had revealed. EARL CADOGAN, in reply, said, Her Majesty's Government had no information on the subject of the Rosslyn which the noble Duke (the Duke of St. Albans) did not himself possess. He (Earl Cadogan) was not in a position to say whether the Consul at Cadiz had or had not demanded the release of the vessel; but the fact that the vessel had been released seemed to show that the Spanish authorities did not feel very strongly in the matter. Smuggling did, no doubt, prevail to a great extent at Gibraltar. It had occupied the attention of both the late Government and the present one; and from Correspondence which had been laid upon the Table, their Lordships would see that the present Governor of Gibraltar (Lord Napier of Magdala) had made various suggestions for the suppression of the traffic. Those recom The Duke of St. Albans LORD NAPIER OF MAGDALA said, that the Government of Gibraltar had no control over the ordinary transactions of the trade of a free port. Ships called, and deposited or carried away such cargoes as they pleased; and unless these consisted of spirits or wine, or munitions of war, the Local Government possessed no rights to interfere with them. But that particular form of smuggling which had been carried on by small vessels that left the port in the evening, and, abusing the protection afforded by the British fortifications, stole round the Rock about dusk, waiting for darkness to enable them to elude the Spanish preventive boats, had been virtually put an end to. By the means and regulations which the Colonial Government had placed in the hands of the Local Government, such strict vigilance was exercised that it was very difficult for boats to leave the port after the hour when it was prohibited. Boats found loitering about the Rock were sent back to the port, and a breach of the port regulations was punishable by a fine of £100. Another form of smuggling had been practised by Spaniards, who visited Gibraltar daily, and in returning were in the habit of sitting down on the neutral ground, beyond the control of the British sentries, and then undressing, and concealing their tobacco, in order to pass the Custom House officers at their own barriers. At the request of the Spanish Consul (Senor Jan Juan), whose courtesy and friendliness in all international questions had been as remarkable as his honest attention to the interests of his own country, he (Lord Napier of Magdala) permitted our policemen to cause these people to move on beyond the half of the neutral ground nearest the fortress, and the Spanish police looked after the other half. By these means the practice had been practically stopped, though any relaxation of vigi lance would allow it to revive. From their defences at home. ARMY-ARMY ORGANIZATION- QUESTIONS. OBSERVATIONS. LORD TRURO rose to ask, Whether Her Majesty's Government have finally determined to appoint an exclusively military Committee to inquire into the defects of our present military organization? The noble Lord said, he had put a Question upon the subject before the Recess; but he was met with silence. The Government was one of silence and surprises; but he wished to know what it was they now purposed to do? Not long ago, our Army had been spoken of as in a condition to go through three campaigns; but it now appeared that the country had been seriously deluded, and the Government had at last been compelled to take some steps to put the Army in a proper condition for the defence of the country. It was proposed to appoint what was called a military Committee; and if the question were one of military discipline or of the size of regiments, he could well understand why it should be confined to military men. Some military authorities declared that the Army was in a rotten condition; we had come to a positive deadlock; and the question was, whether the rottenness was in the system of the noble Viscount (Viscount Cardwell), or in the administration of that system. He did not think that the system as introduced by the noble Viscount was a rotten one; but he thought that the system had not been wisely or loyally administered by the noble Viscount opposite (Viscount Cranbrook), in the passing of threeyears' men into the Reserves, which was not the system of the late Government. The Government had been carrying out a foreign policy which, in some respects, would not be condemned; but, at the same time, they had quite forgotten The Secretary was of State for India (Viscount Cranbrook) The After a The EARL OF GALLOWAY, who had given Notice of his intention to ask(1.) Whether the Committee has yet been nominated who are to report upon the present state of our Army organization; and, if so, whether there is any objection to state their names: (2.) Whether there will be any objection to lay upon the Table of this House a Copy of the instructions which have been issued, or are about to be issued to this Committee? said, that he would put them now, so as to save the noble Viscount the trouble of speaking twice. He desired their Lordships to recall what had happened on this subject during the last few months. sleep of somewhat inexplicable length, the Secretary of State for War at length awoke to the fact that the British Army was in a state of collapse. It appeared to him (the Earl of Galloway) that it must have been well known to the authorities at the War Office three or four months ago that the British Army was in the state which he had described. He would not, however, enter into any details on the subject on the present occasion; but, taking into account the state of the organization of the Army, the country had, he thought, a right to expect that by this time the Committee would have been |