MR. SULLIVAN: This heat is very much to be regretted; and I am astonished at the Chancellor of the Exchequer apparently forgetting who introduced it. Although loyalty to a Colleague is praiseworthy, there is a higher duty due from him. He is the Leader of this House, and ought to be the protector of the privileges of an independent Member; and if he found a Colleague, under momentary irritation, converting a reply to a Question into a harangue and an impeachment of a Member, then I say that the Leader of the House should have risen above the feelings of the Minister towards his Col tion of the right hon. Baronet the Secretary of State for the Colonies; and on every occasion, though I have never previously complained, I have had a right to complain of the uncourteous manner in which he replied. I repudiate with scorn and contempt any insinuation that I am not as careful of the honour of that Army-of which my countrymen form so distinguished a part-as any Member, I care not what his nationality may be, in this Empire. But I have duties to discharge to my conscience, to my Colleagues, to my constituents. Let the right hon. Baronet venture to disprove a single allegation that is made; but let him not presume to reply with un-league. I must say I heard with asworthy taunts to a Member of this House who is acting in the discharge of his duty. I beg to move that this House do now adjourn. MR. BIGGAR seconded the Motion. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House do now adjourn."(Mr. O'Donnell.) THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: I must again, Sir, enter my protest against this repetition of a practice which I ventured yesterday, or the day before, to say must, if persisted in, prove utterly destructive to the possibility of conducting Business regularly; and with a view to the convenience of the House, I think it unnecessary to take any special notice of the extraordinary language which the hon. Gentleman has chosen to indulge in. It is language approaching-though I do not say that it goes beyond an approach-to a very serious breach of the usual language of Parliament. I am quite sure that I speak the sentiments of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies, as well as my own and those of my Colleagues, in saying that we think very little of language such as that employed by the hon. Gentleman. I think that when the hon. Member talks of evasion, he is using language which my right hon. Friend may very well think it beneath him to take any notice of. I rise mainly for the purpose of again entering my protest against the introduction and the adoption by the House of a system of moving the adjournment of the House, in order to introduce matters for discussion that are not at all relevant to the Business before the House. Mr. O'Donnell tonishment-I will not say with astonish- does impose some restriction upon one's "We found the day after the battle 500 wounded, most of them mortally, and begging us for mercy's sake not to kill them." No complain of the language of the Colo- MR. NEWDEGATE remarked, that nial Secretary. He talked about our it was the deliberate opinion of the countrymen, and made imputations upon Select Committee on Public Business, our countrymen in South Africa. He over which the late Sir James Graham forgets, being a Colonial Secretary, that presided in 1861, that the present the paper which published the account fashion of putting Questions might be was English. It was not an Irish news- made the vehicle for conveying imputapaper, but The Tiverton Gazette, and the tions, the necessary reply to which would extract was copied into the London Echo, entail the frequent interruption of the and the soldier who wrote that letter Business of the House. It was in order was an English soldier, you may be to avoid such exhibitions as the House sure. ["No, no!"] Oh! there are a had now been made the scene of, that the few English soldiers out in South Africa; | arrangement was come to that on going although, when you wanted a man to into Supply on Friday any subject lead them, you went to Ireland and might be raised which might be deemed found Sir Garnet Wolseley. This Eng- worth the attention of the House. lish soldier wrote as follows:abler Committee had ever been appointed than the Committee which framed that recommendation in order to avoid such scenes as had now occurred. of the House had chosen, on the authoFor what had happened? A Member rity of a newspaper-or, it might be, such terms as conveyed the grossest imtwo newspapers-to frame a Question in putation upon our Army. When, in answer to that Question, the hon. Memberwas informed by the Secretary of State for the Colonies that if he had only consulted a newspaper, much more likely to attract public attention than those he had quoted, he might have known that inquiries were being instituted, and that it was inpossible at present that his inquiries could be satisfactorily answered, the hon. Member treated that reply as an imputation—and he (Mr. Newdegate) thought the imputation well deserved; and then the hon. Member interrupted the Business of the House in order to make a vindication of his action, in which he had totally failed. That is not a statement of the hon. Member for Dungarvan; it not a statement of an Irish witness. statement published by an newspaper is It is a English "Begging us for mercy's sake not to kill them; but they got no chance after what they had done to our comrades at Isandlana." ["Divide, divide!"] Not so, Mr. Speaker. I am going to be heard. If anyone in this House sees a statement so serious as that, affecting the honour of your Army-[An hon. MEMBER: Prove it.] An hon. Member asks me to prove it. Take the statement out of an irresponsible public paper, bring it to the House, and then let the Minister give it a contradiction. If it is a slander -as I hope it may prove to be for the sake of our common humanity-let it be so branded; but the man who feels it his duty to call attention to it must not be received as my hon. Friend has been received; he must not be taunted and held up to scorn, and the Minister who does so cheered by Gentlemen sitting behind him. I do not wish to complain too much; but I beg to remind hon. Gentlemen opposite that we, too, have our feelings who sit on this side of the House and we cannot see without protest an hon. Friend and Member treatedas we believe the hon. Member for Dungarvan has been treated-in such an unhandsome manner. I repeat my regret that this heated debate should have been provoked from the Treasury Bench, and I hope we shall be allowed to proceed with our Business. MR. W. E. FORSTER: I hope that we shall be allowed very speedily to proceed to Business. I do not quite accept the rules for the conduct of our Business of my hon. Friend opposite (Mr. Newdegate). I think you, Sir, must be the judge whether a Question is in accordance with Order or not, and I must leave it to you to make that decision. Now, with regard to this Question, if it had stopped before the very last clause, I think the Government and the Colonial Secretary ought to have been glad that it was asked. These are two statements which are very distressing to anyone to read. The Government have done their duty in writing to be informed whether these and similar children, or had explained it away in a manner which he considered evasive. But, Sir, I told the hon. Member, in my reply to that Question, that every information which I had received, or should receive, with reference to this practice of indenture—which I knew to be liable to abuse-had been, or should be, given SIR WILLIAM FRASER wished humbly to suggest that the Motion made by the hon. Member for Dungarvan should not be allowed to be withdrawn, but should be met with a negative, and it would be then for the hon. Member to say whether he would test the opinion of the House on his conduct this afternoon. statements are true, thereby showing prima facie their disapproval; but I think it would have been rather a kindness to the Government, and rather a credit to the country, that the Colonial Secretary, or some other Member of the Government, should have been enabled by a Question to state officially that such a step had been taken. I think, how-to the House; and I told him also that ever, that the hon. Gentleman went too I had made further inquiry as to what far in his closing sentence. He seems had actually happened in the matter. by that to prejudge the case, which we The hon. Member went on to say that I all trust may turn out to be quite dif- denied altogether that any persons who ferent to what he represented it. But had been taken prisoners in the rebelwhen we come to the rebuke of the lion, or war in the Transkei, had been Chancellor of the Exchequer to the hon. treated as convicts, and sent to penal Gentleman for moving the adjournment servitude. My reply to the hon. Memof the House, I share the opinion of the ber-I recollect the exact words-was Chancellor of the Exchequer that these that I was not aware that anything of Motions for adjournment are exceedingly the kind had occurred; but there, again, inconvenient; but I confess that in this I said I would make inquiries, and such particular case the Colonial Secretary inquiries have already been made, and ought almost to have anticipated the the result, as soon as I receive it, shall Motion. The way in which he answered be communicated to the House. the Question may or may not have been a just one, but he gave a strong rebuke to the hon. Member for the mode in which he asked it; and I think it is not unnatural to expect, that if a Member of the Government strongly rebukes in his reply to a Question a Member of this House for the form in which he has asked it, it is not unreasonable to MR. PARNELL: Repeatedly, Quesexpect that that Gentleman should get tions have been put to Ministers withup and reply. I do hope that now we out the effect of eliciting any inforshall be allowed to proceed to Business.mation whatever. All kinds of excuse SIR MICHAEL HICKS - BEACH: are made. At one time the absence of I will only detain the House while I say telegraphic communication; at another one or two sentences in my own justifica- time the highest State reasons are urged tion. Nothing that the hon. Member to deprive the House of any information. for Dungarvan can say in this House Now, Sir, when this Vote for the exwill provoke me to warmth on my own penses of the Zulu War was brought account; but I did feel, and I do feel, before the House, I ventured to anticivery deeply, the imputation which he pate that a policy of extermination appeared to me to cast upon men who would be adopted in South Africa. I were absent, and whom it seemed to be said I presumed that, as the Zulus had my duty to defend. I think that, at all given no quarter at Isandlana, so no events, I was so far justified, even upon quarter would be given by the British the hon. Member's own showing; for troops to the Zulus in South Africa ; by his reference to the Aborigines Pro- but I was at once contradicted by several tection Society it is clear that he had hon. Members behind the front Opposiseen the letter to which I alluded. But, tion Bench, who said that the utmost Sir, in moving the adjournment of the pains would be taken to secure that the House the hon. Member went on to operations of the troops should be concharge me-in language which I can tinued in accordance with the usages of well afford to pass by, I hope--with civilization, and that the conduct of the having answered former Questions in a Zulus at Isandlana should not be imiway which he did not approve. He said tated. I entered my protest against the that I had denied the existence of the war as the first Vote for Supply for the practice of indenturing of women and war-————— Mr. W. E. Forster MR. SPEAKER: If the hon. Member | Member for Dungarvan, is very signififor Meath is referring to discussions cant. If the Chancellor of the Exchewhich have arisen during this Session, quer were of opinion that the action of he is not in Order. the troops in South Africa had been carried on according to the dictates of humanity, he would not have acted in any such manner; he would not have turned on the hon. Member for Dungarvan and attacked him in the manner he did for acting in a way which was perfectly in accordance with the Rules of this House, and which it was perfectly competent for him to adopt. When you make a war against a savage nation, it follows that your soldiers will also become more or less savage; and when they see their own countrymen massacred, it is almost impossible to restrain them; and, therefore, Her Majesty's Government should be careful not to enter into a war with a savage people unless compelled by the most urgent necessity to do so. MR. PARNELL: On several occasions, not in this House, I have felt it my duty to point out that, in all probability, the example of the Zulus at Isandlana would be imitated by Her Majesty's troops in South Africa; and I think the course of events has very fully justified my anticipations, and shown that, at all events, caution and forethought to avoid such occurrences was necessary on the part of Her Majesty's Government. But what have Her Majesty's Government done? We know that the Native auxiliaries are employed to aid the troops in South Africa. We know that those Native auxiliaries are not trained in the usages of war; and we have it on the authority of the different reports received that after the recent action at Ginghilova MR. O'DONNELL: Unless it is the these Native auxiliaries did massacre wish of hon. Members, I have no these wounded Zulus in cold blood-and desire to continue this discussion; but that these men were employed, not for I think it is due both to the right hon. the purpose of fighting or defending the Baronet and myself that I should make trenches, but for the purpose of chasing this explanation. I beg to impress on and hounding down the Zulus after the right hon. Baronet, that even if I had the battles. The Cavalry followed. felt irritated by the manner in which he ["Divide, divide!"] If hon. Gentlemen attacked me, I should have endeavoured opposite do not consider that their good to avoid any personal feeling. I disname and the good name of English tinctly declined to go further than to soldiers in South Africa is worth any- say that he was only the channel for thing, I consider that the suffering of evasion and imperfect information. As these unfortunate Zulus is worth far for his personal remarks, and for his more than all the trumpery Bills that supreme disdain for anything that a have been introduced by Her Majesty's person like myself can say to him, that, Government this Session. ["Divide !"] | Sir, is a piece of cheap scorn not to be I shall not be deterred from pursuing imitated, I hope, by any Irish Member. the subject by any desire to proceed I beg to ask the leave of the House to with the discussion of Government withdraw the Motion. measures, which are entirely worthless in their character. Have we heard from the Secretary of State for the Colonies that he has taken any pains to prevent the recurrence of these things? And this is the example which is to be set to our troops! They pursue the flying enemy and massacre the wounded! Naturally, the young soldiers of Eng-tary of State for the Home Department, land think they may do likewise, and they gratify their thirst for blood by following the example set by the Native troops. The conduct of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in particular, in endeavouring to thrust aside the matter at issue and attaching a charge of abusing the Forms of the House to the hon. Motion, by leave, withdrawn. CRIMINAL LAW-CIRCULATION OF QUESTION. MR. O'DONNELL asked the Secre Whether any measures can be taken to suppress the hawking of disgusting and vicious literature, which has recently increased to such an extent in most frequented thoroughfares of London? MR. ASSHETON CROSS, in reply, said, there was no doubt that there had been a considerable distribution of these papers, and he should be extremely glad to see them stopped. The attention of the police had been directed to the matter; but the legal adviser of the police informed him that the papers which had been forwarded to him by the hon. Member for Dungarvan were not such as to bring them within their powers so as to prevent the circulation. At the same time, the police would do all they could to repeal section 5 of the Debtors Act, 1869, which I presume is what is meant by the expression in the Question "abolishing imprisonment for debt." A proposition to repeal this section would, however, in my view, be well worthy of careful consideration; and, I have no doubt, would receive such consideration from the Government. TIONS-REPORT OF THE COMMIS SION. QUESTION. to stop the circulation of these papers. UNREFORMED MUNICIPAL CORPORA He would remind hon. Members, however, although they might wish to stop what was wrong, that literature of the kind complained of very often died a natural death, unless by certain prose-tary of State for the Home Department, cutions it had been made notorious. MR. WHITWELL asked the Secre Whether the Report of the Commission for inquiring into Unreformed Municipal Corporations is likely soon to be laid CRIMINAL CODE (INDICTABLE OF- upon the Table of the House? FENCES) BILL REPORT OF THE SIR HENRY JAMES asked Mr. Attorney General, When the Report of the Commissioners on the Criminal Code (Indictable Offences) Bill will be presented to Parliament; and, if the Government will allow a reasonable time for considering such Report before proceeding with that Bill? MR. ASSHETON CROSS, in reply, said, the Report had unfortunately been delayed by the serious illness of the Chairman of the Commission (Mr. Stephen Cave). His right hon. Friend, however, had now returned to England, and, no doubt, the matter would be proceeded with. POST OFFICE-MAIL CONTRACT WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL (Sir JOHN HOLKER): The Report of the Commissioners on the Criminal Code (Indictable Offences) Bill is now ready, and will be placed in the hands of Mem-tary to the Treasury, If he can inform bers directly. No doubt, reasonable time will be allowed to Members to consider it before the Bill is proceeded with. DEBTORS ACT (1869) AMENDMENT BILL.-QUESTION. MR. M. T. BASS asked Mr. Attorney General, Whether the Debtors Act (1869) Amendment Bill will be proceeded with this Session; and, if so, whether the Government will propose, or accept, if proposed, the insertion of a Clause in such Bill abolishing imprisonment for debt? THE ATTORNEY GENERAL (Sir JOHN HOLKER): The question of whether the Bill will be proceeded with this Session will depend on whether the Bankruptcy Law Amendment Bill can be passed through the House. At present, the prospect of making progress with these measures seems somewhat remote. I am not in a position to say whether the Government would consent Mr. Assheton Cross the House when the Mail Contract with the Peninsular and Oriental Steam Company will be submitted to the consideration of the House? SIR HENRY SELWIN-IBBETSON, in reply, said, he had been anxious to submit the Mail Contract in question to the consideration of the House; but, in the present state of Public Business, he could not undertake to say when he would be enabled to do so. Certainly, however, he would give, at least, three days' notice before taking the opinion of the House on the subject. FRANCE-DEMONETISATION OF SILVER.-QUESTION. MR. ERRINGTON asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether there is any reason to apprehend that, as stated in the " 'Times Paris Correspondence of June the 11th, that the French Government intend to follow up the partial demonetisation of |