THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN rose to a point of Order. Their Lordships would remember that the other night a discussion took place with reference to the powers, and the exercise of the powers, of the noble Earl the Chairman of Committees (the Earl of Redesdale), and before the Motion of the noble Lord (Lord Waveney) was proceeded with, he (the Earl of Camperdown) desired to know whether it was the intention of the Mover to make some change in the position of Chairman of Committees? If so, would it not be more convenient, and more in accordance with the practice of their Lordships' House, for the proposed Amendments to be laid on the Table? He thought that the noble Lord (Lord Waveney) was out of Order in bringing forward a Notice so worded as the one which he had placed upon the Paper.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR said, it would be more convenient, and certainly more in accordance with the present practice observed in that House, for the noble Lord (Lord Waveney) to have given Notice of what the Amendments were which he intended to propose. As it was, the words placed upon the Paper by the noble Lord afforded no indication of the nature of those Amendments; and therefore the House, in accordance with its practice, would have to abstain from discussing a subject of which no Notice had been given.

so as to give noble Lords time to consider the question what his Amendments were to be.

LORD WAVENEY said, he felt bound at least to call attention to the subject. The Standing Orders of the House of Lords had produced a result which could not be viewed with satisfaction, producing, as it did, a very great deal of distrust in the public mind in the management of the Public Business of the House by the Chairman of Committees (the Earl of Redesdale). He (Lord Waveney) was not one of those who adopted opinions put forward by irresponsible writers in the newspapers, though he was glad to get information from all sources, and he had made the subjectmatter of his Motion a matter of discussion by men competent to form opinions on it. He cheerfully acknowledged the great services which the noble Earl had rendered; but there was abundance of evidence to prove that the Standing Orders, by authorizing certain action on the part of the noble Earl, had done a good deal towards creating inconvenience and discontent. He thought that Standing Orders should be clear and distinct, and in agreement with themselves; but he found that they were not clear and distinct, and that the Standing Orders of the two branches of the Legislature were not in harmony. In this Chamber it was the practice of the Chairiran of Committees to act in certain cases as the noble Earl had acted, and convert an unopposed into an opposed Bill, without first referring the matter to a Select Committee, as was the practice in the other branch of the Legislature. The Chairman of Committees in their Lordships' House, therefore, in certain cases, by the exercise of his power of reception, became the sole judge and arbiter of a Bill which he THE DUKE OF RICHMOND AND ordered to be transferred from the unGORDON said, that a discussion which opposed to the opposed class. It was could have no practical effect would be not the noble Earl who was in fault for unsatisfactory. If the noble Lord in- this state of things; it was the Standtended to propose a remedy for any ing Order in the first place, and their present inconveniences, it would be well Lordships in the second, who had for him to bring forward a Notice of allowed the practice to go on uninterMotion indicating the nature of the pro-ruptedly. The Standing Orders of the posed remedies. If that were done, there would be one instead of two discussions on the subject. The noble Lord would certainly not be in Order in going into the second part of his Motion without first informing the House,

LORD WAVENEY said, that, under these circumstances, he would merely call attention to the subject to which his Motion referred. He would like to know, however, whether it was the practice of their Lordships' House to impose silence on a Member when rising to call attention to inconveniences which arose from non-observance of Standing Orders?

two branches of the Legislature were not harmonious, as he had shown; for in the lower House, under similar circumstances, although the Chairman of Committees might transfer a Bill, his rejection of it would not be conclusive

until it had been referred to a Select Committee. Since the decision of their Lordships was pronounced a short time ago upon a Railway Bill, which decision was supported with some doubt by Her Majesty's Prime Minister, and supported on the Opposition side, no doubt, by the noble Earl whom they were all proud to acknowledge as Leader (Earl Granville) -- since that decision he had been in Ireland, and in that particular part where the difficulty, in consequence of their Lordships' action, had been felt. What had he learned there? He had heard very strong objections raised to that mode of dealing with the Business which was principally affected on that occasion, and very much intensified the desire, which was widely felt, for what was called Home Rule. Even in Ulster, where order, peace, and regularity were prized above all things, he had heard it said, by men of mark and position, that if any one thing more than another could create such a feeling, it was the course which had been taken by their Lordships on that occasion. He considered it his duty to make these remarks; but for the present he should leave the Standing Orders to themselves, with the intention, however, next Session, of proposing some Amendment in them.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR said, as this matter concerned the office of his noble Friend the Chairman of Committees (the Earl of Redesdale), it might be more convenient that he should make a few observations. He had taken the liberty of pointing out to the noble Lord (Lord Waveney) that he had not, as a matter of form, given any Notice of any alteration which he proposed to make in the Standing Orders, and that it would be more convenient to follow up any observations he might have to make by some specific proposition, pointing out the alterations he proposed to effect in the Standing Orders. He must, however, observe that the noble Lord was not only irregular in not giving Notice of what his Amendments were to be, but he was irregular in calling attention to the Standing Orders without some specific Notice to the House. No doubt their Lordships were in the habit of extending their indulgence to noble Lords in calling attention to a subject without some specific Motion; but that was by

voked. Having sa to add a very few which the noble I subject. He said at a future period ment in the Stan (the Lord Chan doing so, he wou himself better acq and character of House. He (the I not be suspected o cision in a particu be recollected that his noble Friend w cision on that p speaking of the p it was not correct ferred unopposed of his noble Friend noble Lord was u prehension on that such practice. WI every day. An "committed to the Chairman of Comm as think fit to att practice of the Ho himself was at per any Committee on and if he could pr of any other Peer Chairman of Com no doubt, left the c Bills very much to cause they felt it c hands; but if any different view, he attend the Committ decision. The noble ing Orders in the were entirely differ opposed Bills fron House of Parliame The Standing Orde

"The Chairman of think fit, report to thi any unopposed Bill Chairman shall be pr posed Bill."

No doubt he had noble Lord comp optional; did he man should so rep fit? It was in the man of Committe should be proceede Bill, and then, of

MINUTES.]-SELECT COMMITTEE Report-ready mulcted in very large general
Parliamentary Reporting [No. 203].
PRIVATE BILLS (by Order)--Third Reading -
South London Tramways; Thames River
(Prevention of Floods), and passed.

Works, and he thought it unfair that | under which sanitary authorities in he should be saddled with additional Ireland suffer, and afford to them adexpense by the present Bill. He wished vantages equal to those prevailing in to remind the House that in 1877 a England? Committee sat on a Bill similar to the MR. J. LOWTHER: Sir, with referpresent, and by a decided majority-he ence to the latter part of the Question, believed by 4 to 2-they threw out the I see no occasion for referring this short measure. Last year the hon. and gal-measure-the Public Health (Ireland) lant Member the Chairman of the Me- Act Amendment Bill-to a Select Comtropolitan Board of Works (Sir James mittee. It deals only with a very small M Garel-Hogg) made several efforts to branch of the question, and is to repair bring in a Bill. He failed; and now certain omissions in the general Act. I what was it that he did? will, however, make further application to the Treasury, with whom the question properly rests, with a view to ascertain whether there is any objection to extending the particular provisions referred to in the English Act to Ireland.

MR. SPEAKER wished to point out to the hon. and gallant Member that if he had any opposition to offer to the Bill the Motion for the third reading must be deferred.

COLONEL BERESFORD said, it would be useless for him to oppose the third reading, and he was not going to do so; but he wished simply to explain to the House the reasons which had induced him to resist its progress. He was of opinion that it involved unjust legislation, and he looked upon it as having been introduced by an irresponsible Board.

Motion agreed to.

ARMY-THE WARRANT OF AUGUST 13, 1877-SUPERSESSION OF GENERAL OFFICERS.-QUESTION.

COLONEL NORTH asked the Under Secretary of State for India, Whether it is not under consideration to rectify the Warrant of 13th of August 1877, by which certain British General Officers were superseded by Staff Corps Officers; and, if he can state when this Warrant will be amended and the relative posi

(Prince of Wales's Consent, as Duke tion of those officers adjusted? of Cornwall, signified.)

MR. E. STANHOPE: Sir, the question of rectifying the Warrant referred to by the hon. and gallant Gentleman is still under the consideration of the Secretary of State for India in Council. No time shall be lost in the matter; but it is impossible at present to say when a decision may be arrived at.

THE PATRIOTIC FUND — POWERS OF
COMMISSIONERS.—QUESTION.

to assist, out of any funds that may be placed at their disposal, the widows as well as the orphans of soldiers or sailors who may die in the service of their Country; and, if not, whether the Government propose to take any action in that direction?

MR. M. BROOKS asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland, Whether he is MR. J. R. YORKE asked the Seaware that in reference to an applica-cretary of State for War, Whether the tion for a loan, under the Public Health Patriotic Fund Commissioners have apAct, for paving works, the Local Go-plied, since 1867, for any enlargement vernment Board for Ireland have in-of their powers, in order to enable them formed the Corporation of Dublin that, in the opinion of their law adviser, the Public Health (Ireland) Act does not empower the Board to recommend such loans, and that the Solicitor General has advised the Corporation to the like effect; whether such loans are not commonly granted to urban authorities. in England under the Public Health Act (England); and, whether he will include in the Public Health (Ireland) Act Amendment Bill, now before Parliament, clauses to remove the disability

Colonel Beresford

COLONEL STANLEY: Sir, there have been some communications between the Commissioners of the Patriotic Fund and the Government with regard to this matter, but they are at present of an informal nature, and are still under con

sideration, and I am not yet able, there- | effect to the representations that have fore, to say what action the Government been made to them on the subject? will take.