Senator Tsongas.

Senator TSONGAS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Dr. Lefever, you spoke about truth and the travesty of the record. When you and I met in my office you referred to Communist disinformation being circulated about you and you stated that much of the campaign against you is coming from Communist sources. You mentioned specifically, Izvestia and Pravda.

Can you give me the citations for that disinformation?

Mr. LEFEVER. Senator Tsengas you do not remember correctly. I mentioned only Izvestia, which has an article attacking me and in the daily Communist paper, "De Waarheid" in Amsterdam. This is part of the record. I did not imply that these Communist papers opposing me were responsible for the opposition in this country.

But the fact is that official Communist party papers have opposed my nomination. This is not the first time I have been the target of official Communist publications. I have somewhere here I will give you the citation of both of those articles. They are both here in the book, but I don't want to take the time of looking them up right now. Senator TSONGAS. Did you cite the Izvestia article as an example of Communist disinformation to the other Members of the Senate?

Mr. LEFEVER. I don't know whether that came up in conversations or not. But it is fact that both of these articles carry false allegations about me, as very similar to those in many articles in the American press. And it's not very comfortable to read the many falsehoods in these articles which were frequently never corrected.

Senator TSONGAS. Let me go into two issues that came before you since you have been acting in your current position. On the issue of Paraguay and the loan before the World Bank, the United States was asked for its position. Can you tell me what your position was on the loan to Paraguay and what the position was of the Inter-American Bureau?

Mr. LEFEVER. I was never consulted on that issue. You understand, Senator, I have never been in an acting capacity as Assistant Secretary. I have not received a penny of money from the U.S. Government. I have been in limbo there. And one of the previous deputies, Mr. Steve Palmer, has been the Acting Assistant Secretary ever since the new administration came in. Out of courtesy

Senator TSONGAS. Have you

Mr. LEFEVER. Out of courtesty, sir, I was consulted on a number of crucial issues, and my advice and thought was taken into account. Senator TSONGAS. You never were consulted on the World Bank loan to Paraguay?

Mr. LEFEVER. Correct. I was not involved in that decision.

Senator TSONGAS. Were you consulted on the United States vote on the resolution on Chile before the U.N. Commission on Human Rights? Mr. LEFEVER. As far as I can recall, sir. I was consulted and involved only in the Argentine issue before the U.N. Human Rights Commission, not the other one. You must understand the position of persons who are not confirmed, who have no Government status, who don't even have a permit to get in the State Department building, sitting there as, in a sense, interns learning on the job and at the same time trying to be cognizant of a rather spirited public controversy about one's character and qualifications.

Senator TSONGAS. Did you go to the State Department at all during the last 3 months?

Mr. LEFEVER. Yes.

Senator TSONGAS. How often?

Mr. Lefever. I worked a full week in the State Department during the last 3 months. I worked virtually full-time for the last 3 months,

yes.

Senator TSONGAS. And you were not consulted on the World Bank loan to Paraguay? You were not consulted on the U.N. vote on Chile? Mr. LEFEVER. I think, Senator, I made it clear I was not the Assistant Secretary of State in this area, nor was I Acting Assistant Secretary of State. I signed no telegrams. I signed no papers.

Senator TSONGAS. How were these decisions made since the Assistant Secretary of State for Latin American Affairs was not there either?

Mr. LEFEVER. I am sure that you would have to address that question to the Secretary of State. There is an interim period when administrations change, and when there is a lag between Presidential designation and confirmation, and you operate with the-largely with the existing staff in an acting capacity.

Senator TSONGAS. Can you tell us which human rights issues you have been addressing or which you have influenced since you went down to the State Department?

Mr. LEFEVER. With respect to Argentina, South Korea, the Soviet Union, and Eastern Europe.

Senator TSONGAS. Can you indicate what the results of those were? Mr. LEFEVER. There are two kinds of results: There are the public results of the meetings in Madrid under the Helsinki Accords; and, of course, the meetings in Geneva under the U.N. Human Rights Commission. That is part of the public record.

The quiet diplomacy, of course, I cannot and should not report. There have been significant advances there. But to crow about these successes may close the door in the future. And it is the very essence of quiet diplomacy not to take credit for success.

Senator TSONGAS. Well

Mr. LEFEVER [Continuing]. One-one thing I might mention

Senator TSONGAS. If I may, since my time is limited, you have, as you have said, published millions of words, and I have read a few thousands of them myself. You said that you are nonideological, and you have spoken out eloquently on human rights violations in the Soviet Union and other Eastern bloc nations. Can you cite for me where you have spoken out against human rights violations in Chile other than under the Allende government? Can you cite where you have done that?

Mr. LEFEVER. Well, first of all, it's not my style to go around citing other people's human rights violations. Almost all my writing has been directed to how U.S. foreign policy should respond to other countires. I am not a

Senator TSONGAS. Let me read from your writings:

The policy of the administration and the Congress toward the Soviet Union has also been vacillating and confused. It is seemingly more intent on scoring merchandisable victories than on grappling with the fundamental problem. Were it not for the Jewish emigration issue, Moscow would probably be receiv ing less critical attention than it is. How else can one explain the most complete neglect of the massive violation of civil and political rights in communist China, North Korea, Vietnam, and Cambodia?

Have you been equally eloquent on the Philippines, on Guatemala, on South Korea, on Paraguay, on Pakistan?

Let me read from Mr. Timerman's book:

I keep bouncing in the chair and moaning as the electric shocks penetrate my clothes. During one of these tremors I fall to the ground, dragging the chair. They got angry, like children whose game has been interrupted and again start insulting me. The hysterical voice rises above the others, "Jew, Jew."

Can you cite where you have spoken out against that kind of human rights violation?

Mr. LEFEVER. First of all, Senator Tsongas, I have-do not normally name countries. It's not my style. I am addressing U.S. foreign policy. I am not an area specialist.

I will say that I obviously deplore human rights violations everywhere. I do want to mention one thing that I, and I think I alone, was responsible for, enabling the International Committee of the Red Cross to get $112 million it would not otherwise have had for prison visitation for visiting political prisoners, virtually all of them in friendly or allied countries. This vital work has stopped or deterred much abuse of detainees.

Senator PELL. If the Senator would yield there, I would add that that was made at the very strong request also of myself on the Foreign Relations Committee. I have been pressing this issue for 2 or 3 years; so it was not just you, Dr. Lefever.

Mr. LEFEVER. No. I stand corrected, Senator Pell. I was referring to my influence within the executive branch.

Senator PELL. It was my specific amendment which would add this money in the fiscal year 1982 budget.

Mr. LEFEVER. Well, then, let's put it a little bit differently, Senator Pell. I am delighted that I was in a position to support this $1.5 million appropriation.

Senator PELL. Thank you.

Mr. LEFEVER. I was called upon on an emergency basis and told: "It is going down the drain, unless you intervene directly with somebody in the White House," which I did. And I believe without that intervention, we would not have gotten the $1.5 million for the current fiscal year. And I am delighted that you and I are colleagues in that important endeavor and look forward to many other similar collaborative efforts.

Senator TSONGAS. Mr. Chairman, may I have a couple of minutes to pursue this?

Senator PELL. I am sorry I took the Senator's time.

The CHAIRMAN. Of course, you can.

Excuse me, though, first. Why do we not do this first: Let Senator Hayakawa clarify this matter. I have asked that he come back to the committee, and he is returning now.

Senator Hayakawa, Senator Pell and I have received a telegram from the chairman of the Board, Vincent McGee of Amnesty International U.S.A., and I will ask Senator Hayakawa to explain that telegram.

Senator HAYAKAWA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I just want to correct an impression that I must have given unawares, and certainly unintentionally, that Amnesty International supports the nomination of Dr. Lefever.

It is important to note that some people who belong to this organization support the nomination of Dr. Lefever, and I was quoting a letter from one of them, who said specifically, and I quote,

I write to give you my, not Amnesty International U.S.A.'s, views on the appointment of Ernest Lefever to be Assistant Secretary of State for Human Rights and Humanitarian Affairs. AIUSA has not taken a position on this appointment, and it is unlikely that it will do so.

So this is a correction. And I would like to ask that the telegram from Amnesty International and their letter to me be inserted into the record.

Senator SARBANES. Mr. Chairman, may we have the telegram read, please?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes. It is a short telegram.

Why don't you just read it, Senator Hayakawa?
Senator HAYAKAWA [reading].

On behalf of Amnesty International U.S.A., I wish to correct the impression made as a result of a statement by Senator S. I. Hayakawa in today's hearing that Amnesty International supports the nomination of Ernest Lefever as Assistant Secretary of State for Human Rights and Humanitarian Affairs.

We are dismayed that such an impression may have been created today, especially in light of my letter of May 5th to Senator Hayakawa. That letter stated that it is the policy of Amnesty International throughout the world as well as Amnesty International U.S.A. never to take a position on a government appointment at any level or any capacity. It has always been and continues to be the official policy. In keeping with this policy, Amnesty International U.S.A. neither opposes nor supports this particular nomination. We request that this correction be read at the earliest possible time in the hearing and be made part of the record along with my May 5 letter.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Senator Hayakawa.
Senator HAYAKAWA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Cranston. Oh, excuse me, Senator Tsongas, continue right on.

Senator TSONGAS. You referred to your concern for "the fall of every sparrow." I have a lot of material on your concern about the fall of sparrows in totalitarian regimes. Yet you are silent on the fall of sparrows on the various countries that I referred to, and you have no citations, I take it, to refute that conclusion?

Mr. LEFEVER. I am sure there are citations, Senator Tsongas. But the nature of my writing led me to deal with the foreign policy of the Soviet Union, and it happens that the Soviet Union is not only the greatest violator of human rights but the greatest disturber of peace in the world. And since foreign policy is primarily a response to the foreign policy of other countries, we have a double reason to be concerned about the Soviet Union, which exports its system of brutality. Senator TSONGAS. As head of the Human Rights Bureau in State you will have to be interested in more than the Soviets. In your past writings you have indicated broader interests. Let me read to you six quotes, and I would ask you to either reject them or confirm them.

Referring not to the Soviets but to South Africa and Rhodesia, in the case of South Africa, "I think we should be selling military hardware to South Africa." Do you still feel that way?

Mr. LEFEVER. I would much prefer to respond to a quotation in context. Could you give the largest context for that, please?

Senator TSONGAS. I can do that. Let me run through them, and this afternoon I will read the entirety. That was a quote from 1978. Again, in 1978:

It would be impossible for sophisticated industrialized white South Africa to integrate culturally and politically 10 million largely illiterate Bantu without catastrophic consequences for the economy and political stability.

1979:

The problems of relating political authority and consent in South Africa are the responsibility of the government and people of South Africa, not of outsiders. Rhodesia:

We still talk glibly about majority rule as though it were an option in the real world.

1976:

There is no quick way for Rhodesia to achieve majority rule in any honest sense. The ballot box provides no way for the views of traditional and tribal people to be translated into national policy.

1981:

I do not believe in supporting the devil in any guise,

referring to Mr. Mugabe.

Would you like to comment on any of those six quotes?

Mr. LEFEVER. I will not comment on those quotes, which are ripped out of context. What I would like to say, in general, is that ideally the Westminster parliamentary system which England invented or our form of separation-of-powers democracy is not easily transferrable to traditional societies whether in Africa, Latin America, or Asia. And the attempt to impose our alien systems with little adaptation upon other societies may be regarded both as unwise and as arrogant.

Senator TSONGAS. Mr. Chairman, I would like to provide source citations for these quotes. This first was found in the Wall Street Journal, in an article entitled "Rhodesia: From Irony to Tragedy,' June 2, 1976.

The second also refers to the same Wall Street Journal piece. I would assume that the Wall Street Journal quoted your article correctly. Mr. LEFEVER. Yes; but you did not read the whole article. Let me make this very clear, Senator Tsongas

Senator TSONGAS. Well, let me read more of it.

Mr. LEFEVER. Pardon me, may I just have one sentence here? I believe strongly in the right of self-determination and a full adult franchise for Rhodesia, Zimbabwe, for South Africa, for Namibia, for every other country in the world. I have never deviated in the last 40 years from that belief in self-determination.

The article I was-that you refer to in the Wall Street Journal indicated some of the problems of achieving self-determination and a full franchise in these-in these areas where-that-where such procedures do not fit into normal traditional patterns.

Senator TSONGAS. Let me, Mr. Chairman, if I just could cite the remaining sources.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Cranston wants to yield time to you. Senator TSONGAS. Could I just cite the sources, since that was the question?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; surely. Go ahead and read that one last one.