H. OF R.]

Indian Lands in Georgia.

[FEBRUARY, 1795.

or use force, when uncertain of the justice of the cause. He therefore hoped that the amendment would be rejected.

Mr. FINDLEY was for the amendment, and mentioned several examples to prove the cruelty and perfidy of the Indians.

attention to a declaration of his own last session, to justify this expression, which he used more to designate a peculiar than a general character of the people in the region to which he applied it. The gentleman said, he did not value the lives of one hundred Indians as much as the life of one white man, or words to that extent. [This was The amendment itself was in these words: in a debate just before the close of the last session."Unless it shall be in immediate pursuit of the The words of Mr. CARNES were, "I would not Indians who have recently committed hostilities." give the life of one white man for that of fifty Mr. MADISON did not think the question expliIndians."] Mr. MURRAY said, he had two points cit; he, therefore proposed another, which was to always in his view when the frontier was a sub-prevent the pursuers from coming within a certain ject in that House-protection to the frontier number of miles of an Indian town. He was exagainst the hostility of the Indians, and restraint tremely doubtful whether his amendment or any upon the whites to prevent the occasions of war other would effectually answer the end proposed. against the savages. He had given every testi-He was convinced that no law of any kind would mony to the first by supporting every measure for be able to hinder people from crossing the line in their defence; that he represented a district per- pursuit of Indians, who might have carried off fectly beyond the danger of the Indians, was proof their families. that he was actuated in his votes for appropria- Mr. HARPER said, that however little time the tion and force by no other motive than that which House had to spare, and however long the disbelonged to every man there who supported the cussion might have been, he could not help tresgreat principle of Government, that the whole passing on their patience for a short time to demust protect the parts. He wished to see such a liver his sentiments, as he thought himself tolersystem established, combining these two points, ably acquainted with the subject. He expressly as would give complete protection against the In- denied that the Indians ever committed any murdians, and yet restrain the whites from violating der without previous provocation. The process peace. He wished to see the day when the arms is shortly this: An Indian crosses the line and of the Government might, without a crime, strike steals a horse. And as long as Indians exist they a whole tribe, if that tribe or its members waged will always steal horses. The man to whom the war on the frontiers. But, to do this, it was ne- horse belonged collects as many of his neighbors cessary to place our relative situation so as that as he thinks sufficient, pursues the Indian, and, not justice might be secured. He wished to adopt a contented with recovering his horse, he kills the regulation like the present, to prevent our fellow-thief. The Indians, who have no such sacred citizens from the gratification of private revenge, the source from whence so much blood is shed. In order to justify exemplary punishment on Indian tribes, you must first be in a situation to restrain the whites from doing injustice to them. You must do what all nations have done, when, from the general or local state of civilization, private war disturbs public tranquility-you must restrain the right of private war, by placing the power of vengeance out of the reach of individuals, and in the hands of Government. Nor did this idea go at all to restrain that unalienable right of resistance against imminent danger, which was sanctioned by the law of nature. The picture drawn by the gentleman from Pennsylvania, [Mr. ScoTT,] with his accustomed ability and force, was certainly an interesting one-were an encampment of Indians to be heard in the woods near a settlement, after any evidence of hostility, he did not doubt but the neighbors would be perfectly justifiable in changing the scene of blood from the cottage to the camp-if the amendment which actually arms all the passions of revenge Mr. WHITE, the member from the Southwestern with the rights of law, be rejected, you will at- Territory, said, that he had to complain of the tain one of the great objects of frontier policy-slaughter of near four hundred citizens under the the ability to restrain the right of private war, auspices of your Government. He felt himself from which public war arises as a consequence. much affected, and as to the doctrine of Indian The Government will, when this ability to restrain killing, only in retaliation, he denied it altogether. is complete, become responsible for the protection The love of blood was hereditary in them. When of the whites against the savages. Until that is the gentleman says that with an hundred dollars accomplished, he did not believe Government in his pocket, he can find ten men on the frontiers— could, either in justice or policy, expend treasure [Mr. HARPER explained, that he only said he could

ideas of property, immediately come over the line, and in revenge murder a number of innocent people. Indian murders are not unprovoked. They are not of that stamp. Mr. H. considered the amendment of Mr. VENABLE as a source of endless confusion. Any man, if it passed, might cross the Indian line as often as he thought proper, and say that he was in pursuit of Indians with prisoners. I undertake, (said he,) if you will give me an hundred dollars, to go to the frontier and get a witness who will come into a Court of Justice and swear that on such a day ten Indians came over the line in arms. Mr. H. said he was personally acquainted with the frontiers. He had a high respect for the inhabitants, there were many very worthy people among them, but likewise many others of a very different kind. This amendment will set open a door to all sorts of fraud and mischief. Mr. H. honored the sentiments of patriotism that gave rise to it, but he could not possibly agree to the propriety of its insertion.

FEBRUARY, 1795.]

Public Debt.

[H. or. R.

find a witness.] Well, (said Mr. W.) if the gen- arms on any lands allotted or secured to the Intleman did not mean a reflection on the frontiers, dians by treaties between the United States and he meant nothing at all. I know not how well any Indian tribes, shall, on conviction thereof, the gentleman may be practised in the arts of sub-forfeit a sum not exceeding ornation, but I myself know of no such man. [Mr. imprisoned not exceeding HARPER.-I expected the gentleman would confine himself to a decent answer.] Mr. W. proceeded to observe that no man acquainted with the frontiers would have made any such assertion as the gentleman had done. He was likewise extremely surprised at the gentleman from Maryland, for having persisted in affirming that many of the frontier people were semi-savages.

dollars, and be months, unless it shall be in continuation of a pursuit to a distance not exceeding — miles beyond the line of the particular Indians who shall have recently committed murder, or may be carrying off captives or plunder.

The second resolution being again read, and amended, was, on the question put thereupon, agreed to by the House, as follows:

The yeas and nays were now taken on the Resolved, That it shall be lawful for the miliamendment which was lost by a majority of 7—tary force of the United States to apprehend every yeas 39, nays 46, as follows: person or persons found in arms as aforesaid, and YEAS.-James Armstrong, Theodorus Bailey, Abra-him or them to convey to the civil authority of ham Baldwin, Thomas Blount, Thomas P. Carnes, the United States within some one of the States, Gabriel Christie, Thomas Claiborne, William J. Daw-who shall, by such authority, be secured to be tried son, George Dent, Samuel Dexter, Gabriel Duvall, in manner and form as is provided in and by the Benjamin Edwards, William Findley, Christopher act, entitled "An act to regulate trade and interGreenup, William B. Grove, George Hancock, Carter course with the Indian tribes:" Provided, That B. Harrison, John Heath, William Irvine, Matthew no person shall be confined, after his arrest, and Locke, William Lyman, Nathaniel Macon, Joseph Mc- before his removal, more than days. Dowell, Alexander Mebane, William Montgomery, Andrew Moore, Peter Muhlenberg, Joseph Neville, Anthony New, Alexander D. Orr, John Page, Thomas Scott, John Smilie, Thomas Sprigg, Thomas Tredwell, Philip Van Cortlandt, Abraham Venable, Francis Walker, Richard Winn, and Joseph Winston.

Ordered, That a bill or bills be brought in pur suant to the said resolutions, and that Mr. SEDGWICK, Mr. MADISON, and Mr. HILLHOUSE, do prepare and bring in the same.

PUBLIC DEBT.

NAYS.-Fisher Ames, John Beatty, Elias Boudinot,
Shearjashub Bourne, Benjamin Bourne, Lambert Cad-
walader, David Cobb, Peleg Coffin, Joshua Coit, Henry
Dearborn, Thomas Fitzsimons, Dwight Foster, Ezekiel
Gilbert, Nicholas Gilman, Henry Glenn, Benjamin
Goodhue, James Gordon, Robert Goodloe Harper, James
Hillhouse, William Hindman, Samuel Holten, John
Hunter, Aaron Kitchell, John Wilkes Kittera, Amasa
Learned, James Madison, Francis Malbone, William
Vans Murray, Nathaniel Niles, Andrew Pickens, Theo-
dore Sedgwick, John S. Sherburne, Jeremiah Smith,
Israel Smith, William Smith, Zephaniah Swift, George
Thatcher, Uriah Tracy, Jonathan Trumbull, John E.
Van Allen, Peter Van Gaasbeck, Peleg Wadsworth,
Jeremiah Wadsworth, John Watts, Benjamin Wil-Treasury of the United States.
liams, and Paine Wingate.

A message from the Senate informed the House that the Senate have passed the bill, entitled "An act making further provision for the support of Public Credit, and for the redemption of the Public Debt," with amendments; to which they desire the concurrence of this House.

The House proceeded to consider the said amendments; and the same being read,

Mr. GILES, who had been in the House during the whole debate, had gone out just before the question was put, and returning immediately after the names had been called, asked leave to vote. The rule of the House was read by the SPEAKER, which is, that no member shall vote who was not present at putting of the question. Mr. G. on this account was not allowed a vote.

A motion was made to strike out the section proposing an additional half per centum to the holders of the Foreign Debt, if they should subscribe the same to the Domestic Debt, so as to make the principal and interest payable at the

Mr. HEISTER observed, that he should vote for derange the other parts of the bill, as every other striking out that section; that doing so would not provision in it would be complete without this section. He was anxious to have it stricken out, because he conceived it was making a most important change in the system of our Debt, a change which, if by experience we should find injurious, it would be out of our power to remedy. He confessed there was an inconvenience and expense in reMr. CARNES then moved to amend the said re-mitting such large sums as the interest of our solution by adding to the end thereof the follow ing words:

"Unless it shall be in continuation of a pursuit to a distance not exceeding miles beyond the line of the particular Indians who shall have recently committed murder, or may be carrying off captives or plunder." It was resolved in the affirmative.

The said resolution, as amended, was then again read, and agreed to by the House, as follows:

Resolved, That all persons who, unauthorized by law, and with hostile intent, may be found in

Foreign Debt and instalments to Europe; but asked, if that inconvenience would be remedied by paying at the Treasury of the United States, and whether subscribing it here really made it Domestic Debt? If it did, he should think it well worth half a per centum in addition to the present rate of interest; but that, he said, would not be the case; the money was still owned in Europe, and must go there, remit it who will, and therefore he conceived that the effect of the proposed alteration in the Debt would be no other than this: that

H. OF R.]

Intercourse with Foreign Nations.

[FEBRUARY, 1795.

seller of the produce: that these reasons induced him to hope the motion to strike out the section would prevail.

The motion was withdrawn.

After some discussion, the amendments were agreed to, with an additional amendment upon those of the Senate.

instead of the United States remitting upon the best possible terms they can, a private concern in Europe would be enabled to remit as they pleased, and for which they would be well paid; for onehalf per cent. added to the present interest, is, according to the different loans, from ten to twelveand-a-half per cent. on the gross sums to be remitted; and that in times of peace they might remit specie at an expense of two-and-a-half per cent., INTERCOURSE WITH FOREIGN NATIONS. and make a profit of from seven to ten per cent. Why, said he, cannot our own Treasury Depart-ceived from the PRESIDENT OF THE United The following confidential Message was rement make this remittance, and save the differ- STATES: ence, when it may be convenient to ship money, Gentlemen of the Senate, and and that of this we ought always to be able to judge ourselves?

He did not, however, dread this as the greatest evil; he found a greater to both the agricultural and mercantile interests of the country.

It was, he said, well known that a single concern (he meant the Willinks, Van Staphorsts, &c., merchants of Amsterdam) were the directors of the chief of our loans in Europe, and that the interest they had to receive upon the Foreign Debt alone amounted to between five and six hundred thousand dollars annually; and that besides this they were the directors of very large purchases made, and perhaps still making, of our Domestic Debt, which they had organized, and now conducted in the nature of a bank, so that we could not in either case expect the subscriptions of individual holders of our Debt, and that consequently this would be no inducement for them to remove here. If, therefore, that Debt was subscribed at all, it would be by these directors. He believed that the command of such enormous sums of money to be received by a single house annually from this country, would be dangerous to our trade; for, by the bare dread of our banks and moneyed institutions where the public money is kept, that these sums might be drawn out for exportation, they would be obliged to narrow their discounts so as very much to restrain our exporters in their purchases and prices. He confessed he did not believe it would injure the Middle States, whose produce would find a market in the West Indies, as well as in Europe, as much as it would those States whose rice and tobacco solely depended on the European market, and was more an object for remittance. For if the agents of those gentlemen should make a point of keeping down the price of the articles they wanted to purchase, that might be effected by drawing largely on the Treasury, so as to produce a scarcity of cash at the time of their coming to market. This, he believed himself, might be expected from people who do everything by calculation. For, as the interest is to be paid to the individual money-lender in Holland but once a year, and by this plan it is to be paid here quarteryearly, the remittance may be made to the directors in good time, either in specie, produce, or bills, at the pleasure of the receivers; that, although it might cost the Treasury, as had been stated, near ten per cent. to remit bills, it ought to be considered that when the merchant sells his bills high, it enters into the price of the articles he purchases, so that what is lost to the Treasury is got by the

of the House of Representatives:

In my first communication to Congress, during their present session, I gave them reason to expect that "certain circumstances of our intercourse with foreign nations" would be transmitted to them. There was, at that time, every assurance for believing that some of the most important of our foreign affairs would have been concluded, and others considerably matured, before they should rise. But, notwithstanding I have waited until this moment, it has so happened that, either from causes unknown to me, or from events which could not be contion. That I may, however, fulfil the expectation given, trolled, I am yet unable to execute my original intenment permit, I now, in confidence, lay before Congress as far as the actual situation of things will in my judgthe following general statement.

compensation for the injuries which our commerce has Our Minister near the French Republic has urged sustained from captures by French cruisers, from the nonfulfilment of the contracts of the agents of the Republic with our citizens, and from the embargo at Bordeaux. He has also pressed an allowance for the money voted by Congress, for relieving the inhabitants of St. Domingo. It affords me the highest pleasure to inform Congress that perfect harmony reigns between the two Republics, and that those claims are in a train of being discussed with candor, and of being amicably adjusted.

So much of our relation to Great Britain may depend upon the result of our late negotiations in London, that, until that result shall arrive, I cannot undertake to make any communication upon this subject.

pending, unusual and unexpected embarrassments were After the negotiation with Spain had been long deraised to interrupt its progress. But the Commissioner of His Catholic Majesty, near the United States, having declared to the Secretary of State, that if a particular accommodation should be made in the conducting of the business, no further delay would ensue, I thought proper, under all circumstances, to send to His Catholic Majesty an Envoy Extraordinary, specially charged to bring to a conclusion the discussions which have been formerly announced to Congress.

We

The friendship of Her Most Faithful Majesty has been often manifested in checking the passage of the Algerine corsairs into the Atlantic Ocean. She has also furnished occasional convoys to the vessels of the United States, even when bound to other ports than her own. may therefore promise ourselves, that as, in the ordinary between the United States and Portugal, so the temper course of things, few causes can exist for dissatisfaction with which accidental difficulties will be met on each side, will speedily remove them.

Government of the United Netherlands, but little interBetween the Executive of the United States and the course has taken place during the last year. It may be

Intercourse with Foreign Nations.

Resolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury The Message was read, and ordered to lie for be directed to lay before the next Congress such consideration.

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole House on the resolution sent from the Senate, authorizing the exportation of arms, canA message was received from the Senate, disa-non, and military stores, in certain cases; and, afgreeing to the amendment of the House of Representatives, on the bill for the support of Public Credit and the redemption of the Public Debt. The Senate receded from their own amendments at the same time, so that the bill stands as it was originally agreed to.

H. OF R.J Duty on Carriages—Intercourse with Indians-Exportation of Arms. [MARCH, 1795.

The House resolved itself into a Committee of therein mentioned," reported that the Committee the Whole House on the bill sent from the Se- had had the said bill under consideration, and nate, entitled "An act to regulate the compensa-made no amendment tbereto. The bill was read tion of clerks ;" and, after some time spent there- the third time, and passed. in, the Committee rose, and reported the bill, with an amendment; which was twice read, and agreed to by the House. The said bill, with the amendment, was then read the third time, and passed.