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Louisiana Territory.

FEBRUARY, 1804.

Messrs. ELMER and LEIB, supported, and Mr. HUGER opposed this motion; when the Committee rose, without any question being taken, and obtained leave to sit again.

WEDNESDAY, February 29.

Mr. JOHN C. SMITH, from the Committee of Claims, to whom was referred, on the twentieth instant, the memorial of William Eaton, made a report thereon; which was read, and the consideration thereof postponed until Friday next.

Mr. JOHN RANDOLPH, from the Committee of Ways and Means, presented a bill providing for the expenses of the civil government of Louisiana; which was read twice, and committed to a Committee of the whole House on Friday next.

An engrossed bill to revive and continue in force an act, entitled "An act for the relief of the refugees from the British provinces of Canada and Nova Scotia," was read the third time, and passed.

Mr. EPPES. from the committee appointed, presented a bill declaring the assent of Congress to an act of the General Assembly of Virginia, therein mentioned; which was read twice and ordered to be read the third time to-morrow.

property, and the religion which they profess." will agree to strike out the section, and that it By the very act before us, a number of the laws shall not hereafter be said, that we met to make of the United States are extended to them; bylaws for a people, whom we have called our friends this the principle is admitted that the rights, ad- and brothers, different from the laws which we vantages, and immunities, can, according to the have made for ourselves. Constitution, be extended to them. If they can be so extended, it becomes a question of policy altogether, how far they shall be extended. Is it then politic, or not, at this time to extend the privileges they are entitled to as a Territory of the United States? One idea relied on by gentlemen is worthy of notice; it takes for granted that the people do not wish for a free Government. I ask genilemen if they are really serious in this remark? If they are, the argument will be conclusive in giving them, if they choose it, an absolute despotism. If we knew it were the desire of the people to have a King, whatever might be our opinions of the benefits of liberty, it would be our duty to give them one! Gentlemen cannot think so, nor would they suffer the United States to degrade their character by such an act. I conceive the United States bound to give them a republican form of Government, and to consider therefore not what they may desire, but what will best suit their ultimate interest, while it promotes the benefit of America at large. One gentleman observes, that we ought to regard the people of Louisiana as totally distinct from, and as not possessed of any similar habits with ourselves. I trust, however, we shall consider them as a part of the human species. I believe the gentleman will find the human character the same in different parts of the globe. If this principle had been pursued, liberty had never flourished; if the people had never enjoyed liberty till they were ripe for it, how many ages of darkness would have passed away! But the fact is, the people suffer oppression to an astonishing degree-despotism grinds them down till human nature can endure no more, and then they break their chains in a revolt. I therefore can see no force in the argument of waiting till they are ripe for liberty. How ripe? If they have never tasted its benefits how can they know them? I trust, therefore, we shall extend to them the same rights as are enjoyed by the other Territories. I will close what I have to say on this subject with a few additional remarks. Much has been said of the interests of the people, to prove them incapable of exercising the elective franchise. I will only observe, in addition to what I have already stated, that I believe that principle was the first made use of among nations. We find it among savage nations, and we find all nations, even in the darkest periods, exercising it, until deprived of their liberties by one or a few designing and ambitious characters. Should the Committee agree to strike out this section, it is my wish to propose an amendment similar in substance to the provisions established in the Mississippi Territory. I will not take up the time of the Committee with reading the rough draught which I have drawn to this effect, but barely state that my object is to empower the Governor and judges to execute the government until they shall divide the Territory, and until the people choose their own Legislature. I trust, therefore, the Committee

Ordered, That the depositions and other papers transmitted from several counties in the State of Virginia, respecting a contested election of Thomas Lewis, one of the members returned to serve in this House, which were referred to a Committee of Elections, during the present session, be referred to the Committee of the whole House to whom was committed, on the twenty-fourth instant, the report of the Committee of Elections in the case of the said contested election.

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the bill altering the days of session of the district court for the district of Virginia; and, after some time spent therein, the bill was reported with several amendments thereto; which were twice read, and agreed to by the House.

Ordered, That the said bill, with the amendments, be engrossed, and read the third time tomorrow.

A Message was received from the President of the United States, communicating a letter stating certain fraudulent practices for monopolizing lands in Louisiana, The Message, and the letter transmitted therewith, were read, and ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. JACKSON moved the going into Committee of the Whole, on the report of the Committee of Elections, respecting the seat of Thomas Lewis.

Mr. DANA moved a postponement of this order until to-morrow, and required the yeas and nays, which were yeas 64, nays 48.

The House went into a Committee of the Whole on the bill making appropriations for carrying into effect the convention of the 11th Au

FEBRUARY, 1804.

Louisiana Territory.

gust, 1802, between the United States and the King of Spain.

The bill appropriates $15,760 for the compensation of two Commissioners, half of the fifth Commissioner, a secretary, and an agent.

Having passed through the Committee, the House ordered the bill to a third reading to

morrow.

Mr. EPPES, from the committee appointed to inquire whether the moneys drawn from the Treasury on account of the Marine Corps have been faithfully applied to the public service, made a report, which concludes with recommending a resolution, that provison ought to be made by law for a monthly or quarterly adjustment of the accounts of the Marine Corps.

GOVERNMENT OF LOUISIANA.

The House went again into a Committee of the Whole on the bill for the government of Louisiana.

The fourth section of the bill being under consideration

Mr. JACKSON said: As this section is the corner stone on which the whole superstructure rests, and involves the most important principle of the bill, I will ask the indulgence of the Committee to make a few remarks upon it. It presents two important questions; first, Whether it is proper on the broad principle of political justice to adopt it? And secondly, Whether it is consistent with our treaty with France? Two questions arise out of the first proposition; first, Is the system consonant to the habits of a free people? And, secondly, if not, is it the best calculated to advance the happiness of those who have never tasted the blessings of liberty? The first question requires no discussion; it will be answered in the negative by every section of this Union. Every section has been engaged in forming a constitution, and both the State and Federal constitutions have decided this point in the negative, because neither partake of the aristocratical or monarchical features contained in this section. The question remains to be considered whether it is best calculated for those who have never enjoyed the blessings of liberty. Gentlemen say it is, because the people are hostile to the enjoyment of the blessings of self-government, and the gentleman from South Carolina thinks we ought to look upon them as a certain portion of the people among us-meaning those in slavery -and to treat them as such.

Mr. HUGER explained. He said his meaning was not such as the gentleman's language inplied; he spoke of them barely by way of comparison, to show that nothing was more dangerous than to pass from the extreme of slavery to perfect liberty. Mr. JACKSON. I will not pretend to say I comprehended the meaning of the gentleman; his words were, "they ought to be looked upon as a certain portion of people among us and treated as such." If he did not allude to slaves, I do not know to whom he did allude. But as he says he did not allude to them, I will avoid any remarks that go to implicate him in such allusion. Admitting they are not to be compared to the slaves

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of the Southern States, or to those human beings who are made the subject of traffic, gentlemen allege that a system of free government will be inconvenient to them. I believe they are wrong in this position, and that man is the same, whether born in the United States or on the banks of the Ganges, under an African sun or on the banks of the Mississippi, and that a love of liberty is implanted in his nature. If the gentleman from South Carolina meant to impress a belief on the Committee, or is under the influence of that belief himself, that the inhabitants of Louisiana are exclusively subjects of France or Spain, he is mistaken. A great number of the inhabitants are Americans. Emigration has been carried to a great extent; many have gone from the West, from the East, and from the middle States; and I will ask gentlemen, whether those persons who have carried with them the habits of Americans, are not fit objects of free government? Surely they are; and yet these must be excluded from the benefits of self-government, if this bill pass in its present shape. I flatter myself that great good will result to the United States, and to the political system we support, by the introduction of Americans into that country; they will explain to the natives and to those who have emigrated from Europe, the nature and principles of our Government; the language of liberty will captivate them; its principles are just, and will be omnipotent, and in receiving a free system of government from the United States, they will feel a sentiment of gratitude instead of abhorrence.

Allow, for the sake of argument, that the people are slaves. This does not prove that they are not fit objects of a free Government. Look at the ensanguined plains of St. Domingo; the oppressed have there broken their chains, and resumed their long lost rights. The example proves more than a volume. There, notwithstanding the great debasement of the human character, the sacred fire of liberty is not extinguished. Wherever it exists, sooner or later, it bursts forth into an irresistible flame, and consumes everything opposed to it. And are the subjects of a monarchy, the inhabitants of Louisiana, more deficient in manly sentiment than the people of St. Domingo? This argument of incompetency in the people to govern themselves, is the essence of despotism; its language is, the people are a mob; a swinish multitude; and the Divine Goodness has pleased to send into the world kings and nobles to keep them in order. A language well suited to bold and ambitious spirits, but which, thank God! the American people know how to estimate.

One gentleman, in the course of his remarks, in order to show that the people of Louisiana are not qualified for self-government, has informed us they shed tears at the lowering of the French flag, and the hoisting of ours in its room. Perhaps they were not unfriendly tears, but tears of joy; perhaps those who shed them were sycophants of Mr. Laussat, and they were shed to gratify him. At all events, whether they laughed or cried, I am unwilling to form a judgment of the character of the people from the conduct of a few persons at

New Orleans, who, from proximity and the nature of a despotic government, felt themselves obliged to weep, to smile, or dress their faces in sunshine, as the occasion prompted, through fear of the inquisition or incarceration for life.

But gentlemen say, men of information who have been amongst them are convinced they are not qualified to receive a free government; that it would indeed disgust them: I believe, however, that this impression has been founded on the same ex parte views. Persons going to New Orleans, where despotism rages with unbounded sway, beholding a few persons around the despot, ready to sacrifice everything to his caprice, are not proper to give a character to several hundred thousand people. I believe, if the interior of the country be explored, among those who have heretofore been subjects of Spain and France, we shall find many desirous of receiving civil and religious liberty, and as opposite to the fawning sycophants at New Orleans, as light from darkness. We were told some time since, that Mr. Laussat could not obtain the cession of the country, so great was the hatred of the people to France, and their love of Spain. But in a short time we perceive this hatred turned into affection, so ardent as to preduce extreme distress at the transfer of the country to America from France, after but a few days possession. If this statement be true, and the ple are so versatile, we may predict that they will be as soon attached to us, and as willing to receive a free system of Government as they were lately enamored of slavery.

peo

FEBRUARY, 1804.

maintained and protected in the free enjoyment of their liberty, property, and the religion which they profess." A gentleman from Massachusetts, who advocated this section, asserted that the treaty does not apply, because the people are not yet admitted into the Union; but what does the treaty say? "The inhabitants of the ceded territory shall be incorporated in the Union of the United States, and admitted as soon as possible," &c.—As soon as possible, not as soon as conveniently can be admitted; there is no such limitation; and unless gentlemen can make it appear impossible to admit them to a participation of rights, anterior to their admission into the Union as an integral part of it, this provision does require the extension of political rights to them, unless contrary to the Constitution. Cannot we do this under the Constitution? We certainly can—it is not denied that we have the right and possess the power to authorize the people to elect their own magistrates; and as this is not inconsistent with the principles of the Constitution, we are bound to admit them "to the enjoyment of all the rights, advantages, and immunities of citizens of the United States." Upon the whole, whether we view the subject on the principle of policy, so far as it respects the propriety of extending the principle of free government to this people, or so far as respects the treaty, to the execution of which we have pledged our faith, I have no hesitation in saying, that policy no less than moral obligation dictates the establishment of a system of government different from that contained in the fourth section. I shall, therefore, most cheerfully vote for striking it out.

It is urged by gentlemen, that we ought to give to this people liberty by degrees. I believe, howMr. HOLLAND.-As my ideas are very different ever, there is no danger of giving them too much of it; and I am unwilling to tarnish the national from those of the gentleman who has preceded character by sanctioning the detestable calumny moral obligation recommends the adoption of a me, and as I do not believe that either policy or that man is not fitted for freedom. What will the system such as he has avowed to be proper. I will, world say if we sanction this principle? They in a few words, state the sentiments I entertain. will say we possess the principle of despotism I do not view this discussion as involving the under the garb of Republicans; and that we are insincere, with whatever solemnity we may de- be admitted into the United States. The only question, whether the people of Louisiana shall clare it, in pronouncing all men equal. They question is, whether we shall extend to them the will tell us that we have emphatically declared to the American people and to the world, in our first right of free suffrage in its fullest extent, and such act evincive of emancipation from the tyranny of as is enjoyed by the people of the United States? England, that all men are equal; and that all Gentlemen in favor of striking out this section, seem impressed with the idea that every gentleGovernments derive their rightful power from the consent of the governed; and that notwith-lute despotism-is inimical to their rights, is deman friendly to the section is in favor of an absostanding, when the occasion offers, we exercise sirous of making the people of Louisiana slaves. despotic power, under the pretext that the people They take the ground that, if we deny them this are unable to govern themselves. right, we deny them everything. But there is a wide difference between denying them the privilege of election and extending to them other high privileges; mote, perhaps, than they are capable of enjoying. This law will extend to them the privileges of twenty-one acts of the United States, to which the freemen of the United States are subject. Is this nothing? Gentlemen say they ought not to be subjected but to laws of their own making; but the whole frame of this bill contradicts the assertion, as it principally consists in imposing laws which the people never made, or ought to participate in making. Will the gentleman take

I come now to the second question; Is it consistent with the treaty, for the performance of which we have pledged our faith, to withhold from the people of Louisiana the privileges of free government?

The article on this point is in these words: "The inhabitants of the ceded territory shall be incorporated in the Union of the United States, and admitted, as soon as possible, according to the principles of the Federal Constitution, to the enjoyment of all the rights, advantages, and immunities of citizens of the United States; and in the meantime they shall be

FEBRUARY. 1804.

Louisiana Territory.

H. OF R.

When the people understand the value of laws equally and impartially administered, and begin to feel an attachment to the United States, and to inquire into the principles of free government, it will be time enough to give them the elective franchise.

Mr. SLOAN.-Mr. Chairman, although silent, I have not been an inattentive spectator of the business now before the House. I was, yesterday, about to rise to express my disapprobation of the section now under consideration, and my concern on hearing sentiments adduced in support of its principle-which I consider as repugnant to justice and sound policy as frost is to fire, or darkness to light-when my friend from Tennessee (Mr. G. W. CAMPBELL) rose, and in so clear and explicit a manner opposed the bill, and exposed its unjust, impolitic, dangerous, and despotic principle, that nothing appeared necessary to be added; after which, I flattered myself no further attempts would be made to support a principle subversive of the inalienable rights of man, but, to my surprise, I hear a repetition of sentiments urged in favor of this principle!

the broad ground that people should never be governed but by laws of their own making? This is, indeed, the amount of the argument, and proving too much, it proves nothing. Mr. H. said he believed the people of St. Domingo, who had been alluded to, not qualified to support a free government-not possessed of sufficient knowledge. People who never had an opportunity to obtain knowledge cannot be supposed to possess it, and no kind of knowledge was more difficult to obtain than that which qualified men to be legislators. Can gentlemen conceive the people of Louisiana, who have just thrown off their chains, qualified to make laws? Under the late system the people had no concern in the government, and it was even criminal for them to concern themselves with it; they were set at a distance from the government, and all required from their hands was, to be passive and obedient. Can it be supposed such a people made the subject of Government their study, or can it be presumed they know anything about the principles of the Constitution of the United States? Would persons thus elected be of any service to the Government? So far from being an assistance they would be an encum- Here let me ask, can anything be more repugbrance. Why then impose this burden upon nant to the principles of just government; can them? The object of this bill is to extend the anything be more despotic, than for a President to laws of the United States over Louisiana, not to appoint a Governor and Legislative Council, the enable the people of Louisiana to make laws. Governor having a negative on all their acts, and This extension, so far from being an act of des-power to prorogue them at pleasure? What libpotism, will be an important privilege. If the laws of the United States were founded in injustice they might have some right to complain, but we only apply to them laws by which we ourselves consent to be governed. Gentlemen say, if we deny the right of self-government, we deny everything; but before they are permitted to make laws, ought they not to understand what law is? If we give power to the people, will they not choose persons as ignorant as themselves? It is a fact that many of the most respectable characters in the country conceive the principle of self-government a mere bubble, and they will not consider themselves aggrieved if it is not extended to them. Does the history of nations show that all men are capable of self-government? No such thing. It shows that none but an enlightened and virtuous people are capable of it; and if the people of Louisiana are not sufficiently enlightened, they are not yet prepared to receive it. If this be the case, the ar- | guments of gentlemen are inconclusive. They are not prepared for self-government. For what are they prepared? To remain in a passive state, and to receive the blessings of good laws; and receiving these, they have no reason to complain. The provisions of this section are said to be worse than those of the first grade of Territorial governments; but this is incorrect. This plan is not equal to the second grade, but it is certainly superior to the first grade. The first grade gives the Governor and judges all the powers granted by this section; and this section, in addition to the Governor and judges, contemplates the appointment of thirteen counsellors. Is not this preferable to giving the whole power to the Gov-| ernor and judges?

erty, what power is here vested in the people? But, perhaps, I may be told that, in the present case, this power will be delegated to one who will not abuse it. This bears no weight with me. None have a higher esteem and respect for the superior talents, integrity, and justice of our present Chief Magistrate than I; but I can never consent to delegate that power to a just person, which an unjust person, who may succeed him, may use for oppressive and tyrannical purposes.

Perhaps I may be also told, that I am ignorant of the situation of the people-I acknowledge it. I only know their situation from printed narrative, and historical or verbal accounts, and probably the greater part of the members of the present House are equally ignorant. But, Mr. Chairman, the only thing I want to know, to decide the present question, is, are they human beings possessed of rational understanding? If so, give them an opportunity to improve it.

But we have been told, that giving these people their just rights will make them enemies dangerous to Government; enable them to combine together, &c. This is, in my opinion, not supported by a single fact, either ancient or modern. That to make the situation of rational beings better, will render them enemies to their benefactors, is as impossible as for streams to turn backward to their source, flames to descend, or sparks cease to fly upwards.

Here, Mr. Chairman, permit me to ask what danger can possibly arise from allowing them the elective franchise? Every law must be sanctioned by the Governor, under the control of Congress. Thus circumscribed, what power have they? I answer, being elected in different, and

some of them from distinct districts, they will consequently have knowledge of the various situations of the people, and form a proper medium through which to convey an account of grievances, and information of whatever subjects require Legislative interposition-which. I trust, would be strictly attended to by the Governor. And all laws made for the promotion of their peace and prosperity, sanctioned by the Government, would bind them to the United States, by the strongest of all ties, gratitude and love.

For the foregoing reasons I shall vote for striking out the section, in order that one may be troduced allowing them the elective franchise which I consider not only as their inherent and inalienable right, but as a right we are bound to give them to fulfill the treaty of cession-and without which, neither the present, nor any other bill, depriving any description of free white citizens of what I consider an inalienable right, shall ever have my vote.

FEBRUARY, 1804.

can be the danger of trusting the people with the exercise of the elective franchise? To me there appears to be none. As I take it for granted that there is but one opinion as to the propriety of bestowing every blessing consistent with the provisions of the Federal Constitution, I think there can be no difficulty in striking out this section, and amending it so as to render its provisions more consonant with what appears to be the disposition of the Committee.

Mr. BOYLE said he should not have risen on this occasion but for the impression that some arin-guments of weight had been omitted, or had not been sufficiently dwelt on. In the few remarks he purposed to make, he should endeavor to avoid a repetition of ideas already expressed. It was not so much to the novelty, as to the nature of the plan of government contained in the fourth section, that he was opposed. He did not consider the Territorial government proposed to be substituted, as perfect, but he believed it infinitely prefMr. SMILIE said it was not his purpose to de- erable to that contemplated in the bill. Preferring, tain the House by any detailed observations. His therefore, either grade to this, said Mr. B., I shall ideas differed in some respects from those express- concur in supporting the substitution of the second ed by gentlemen on both sides of the question. grade as most fitted to the circumstances of the The subject of liberty was so grateful a theme people of Louisiana. I feel peculiarly hostile to that gentlemen, desirous of speaking, could not the mode of appointing the Legislative Council. wish a better. All the arguments, however, The power of appointing them is unnecessarily which had been uttered as to the right of man to vested in the President. Waiving all objection self-government, were, in his opinion, irrelevant arising from the distance of the President from to the present occasion. He could not agree with the men to be appointed; from the necessity of gentlemen who considered man, in every situa- his relying on the representations of others as to tion, as capable of enjoying all the blessings of their qualifications, and his liability to be deceived free Government. The universal experience of by misrepresentations; still one objection remains, the world disproved it. History informs us of which, to my mind, is most important. I am, said many nations, once possessed of free Govern- Mr. B., unwilling to extend Executive patronage ments, who afterward became incapable of enjoy- beyond the line of irresistible necessity. For, I ing them. If this be the case, we may suppose believe, if ever this country is to follow the destithose who never enjoyed liberty, incapable of en-ny of other nations, this destiny will be acceleratjoying it to the same extent as those who have ed by the overwhelming torrent of Executive had a long experience of its blessings. Whether patronage. I feel as high a veneration for the the people of Louisiana are qualified to enjoy all present Chief Magistrate as any man on this floor. the blessings of free Government, I have my Early attached to him, I have retained the full doubts. But, I do not, said Mr. S., see the danger force of my regard for him. But, were he an of extending to them, ill-informed as they may angel, instead of a man, I would not clothe him be supposed to be, the elective franchise, while with this power. Because, in my estimation, the under the immediate control of the Government investiture of such high powers is unnecessary. of the United States, as they necessarily must be. My opinion is, that they will be more properly We ought to discriminate between the situation exercised by the people. To give them to the of a people forming a government for themselves, President is to furnish a dangerous precedent for over which there is no external control, and the extending Executive power and patronage; and situation of a people whose power. is under a con- as he has himself said, one precedent in favor of trolling government. This is an important con- power is stronger than a hundred against it, I am sideration. I ask, where will be the danger, or the in favor of giving to the people all that portion of capacity of their doing anything injurious to the self-government and independence which is comUnited States, provided we give them the elect-patible with the Constitution. To this I consider ive privilege? They will only be empowered to them entitled, as well on natural principle as by pass laws for the management of their own inter- the terms of the treaty. When the British Parnal concerns, and even in these they may be con-liament passed the celebrated declaratory act, we trolled by the United States. Two of the de- declared to the world our right of being governed partments of the government will still remain in by laws of our own making. If this right was the hands of the Government of the Union. The then, as we declared it, an inalienable and indeExecutive power will be amenable to the Presi-feasible right, is it less so now? If it was our indent, as well as the military, The Government defeasible right, is it not likewise the indefeasible of the United States will retain in their own right of every individual of the human species? hands the purse and the sword. Where, then, But, it is said, the people of Louisiana are not