SENATE. Redemption of the Public Debt. APRIL, 1802. I said the other day, that the surplus of all our revenue beyond the appropriations, was already pledged to the sinking fund. This gentlemen had the goodness to deny. I pray they will now be pleased to turn to the eighth page of the Secretary's report. They will there find, in the eighth section, among the provisions for the redemption of the public debt, "All surpluses of the revenues of the United States, which shall remain at the end of any calendar year, beyond the amount of the appropriations charged upon the said revenues, and which during the session of Congress next thereafter, shall not be otherwise specially appropriated or referred by law." reasonably expect to borrow money on a short servations I must refer gentlemen to their favorite credit, because, if the peace continues, the British document-the Secretary's report. But I supstock (the interest of which has for more than a pose nothing I can say will avail; they seem decentury been regularly paid) offers so clear a pros-termined to pass the law at any rate. pect of gain, from the rise, that those who have money will prefer it to your obligations. When the British funds rise so high that investments in their three per cents. will not give more than five per cent. interest, you will perhaps succeed in borrowing for six years; but if the war should recommence, you will not, I believe, be able to get money on any terms. I shall press this amendment no farther. What I advance is on the ground of private information, from whence I collect that American obligations bearing an interest of five per cent. were in Amsterdam three per cent. below par. So long as this is the case, it is idle to expect that you can borrow at five per cent. for a short term, because any person inclined to lend in that way would rather purchase the obligations at ninety-seven per cent. I leave gentlemen who are connected with the Administation, and who have I suppose correct information from the Headther the proceeds of loans should be included in of the Department, to judge for themselves. The amendment was lost. It is indeed said, in the third section of the fifth page, that, from certain defects in the mode of doing business, the amount of this surplus cannot be ascertained. He tells us it is uncertain "whe 'the revenue." I pray gentlemen will attend to this expression. Your Secretary considers it as Mr. MORRIS.-The untoward state of so many doubtful whether loans make part of the revenue; amendments is a sufficient indication that I need and tells you the construction as to that point has not trouble either the Senate or myself with any not been uniform. He sends you an account to thing more of that sort. But I feel it my duty to show that, instead of a surplus, there had been a suggest to gentlemen, whose act this is, the pro- deficiency of near a million from the establishpriety of correcting that part of the fifth section ment of the Government to the close of the year which speaks of purchasing remittances. I the 1799; and concludes from that circumstance, that rather avoid all attempt to amend it, as I must the accounts have been irregularly kept. As to again ackowledge my ignorance. I know not the manner in which the books have been kept, what is meant by purchasing remittances. I know Mr. President, it is of no consequence. It apwhat it is to purchase bills, bullion, &c., to make pears by this very report, that, let them have been remittances. Whether it is intended that when kept as they may, there is now a surplus of more other people have made remittances the things than three millions of cash in the Treasury. We by them sent shall be purchased, or whether (un- have just seen that the whole surplus revenue, be der this vague term) cargoes of produce and of it what it may, is appropriated to the payment of all kinds of merchandise are to be included, I know our debts. This sum of three millions, therefore, not. Whether, by the help of the agent contem- no matter how it got into the Treasury, is already plated in this clause, the United States of America bound to the payment of our debts. As to the are to become a trading company, and the loss on difficulties or the blunders in keeping our books, bad speculations in trade, is to be made up by supposing any such to exist, they may be obviated taxes on the people, I cannot discover. This last, by the Secretary himself, or, if not, it will be however, would seem to be the case, from that pro- easy to make the needful provisions by law. The vision in the section which appropriates so much appropriation formerly made, is not perhaps suffifrom the revenue as may be necessary, to pay ciently clear and definite, but until the objections "the extra allowance or commission resulting be distinctly stated we cannot judge of them. 'from such transactions, and the deficiency arising neither can we pretend that any law, much less 'from any loss incurred upon any remittance pur the law now proposed, can be necessary to remove chased or procured." I shall not repeat my ob- them. Last of all, can it be pretended that the jections made the other day to the same agent; appropriation does not exist? Let any gentlemen but I must say, that it behooves gentlemen to ren-show a single dollar of revenue, except that from der this part of their act more explicit, unless it be indeed their intention that this agent shall make commercial speculations, and when successful pocket the profit-when unsuccessful saddle the public with the loss. No answer was made to these observations. The bill was read a third time, and, on the question, shall it pass: Mr. MORRIS said,-Mr. President, I have always thought this measure unwise; from what has now passed, I think it worse. In the course of my ob the post office, which is not now appropriated. Gentlemen have said otherwise, but let them show it. A part of the internal revenue, indeed, was not specifically pledged, but the whole has been repealed. While I now speak, every farthing of surplus is appropriated to the sinking fund. What then is the effect of this act, fastidiously pretending to redeem the whole public debt? Will it bring one dollar into the Treasury? Or is there a magic in the words of it, by which debts can be paid without money? You undertake to appro 6 SENATE. priate seven millions, and you have it not to ap- rent service, by two hundred thousand dollars; but propriate. I say seven millions, leaving out the that sum will he supposes be supplied by an econadditional three hundred thousand, for I must now, omy to the same amount. In the letter of the for the facility of comprehension, confine myself 31st of March, to the Chairman of the Committee to round numbers. Your Civil List, including for- of Ways and Means which forms their report, and eign affairs, amounts to a million; your Navy to to which we have been so often referred, as the a million; your Military Establishment to a mil- Secretary's report, speaking of the $7,300,000, he lion and a half. Admit, for a moment, that your says: "The ability of the United States, with their boasted economy will reduce these items, (by present revenue, to apply annually the sum to some trifle,) you see at a single glance, that if this 'that object, rests on the correctness of the estiact be passed, ten millions and a half of revenue mates annexed to that report." Your Secretary will be required to meet your appropriations. is a man of sense. He knew better than risk his Now, sir, what is your revenue? When this sub- reputation on this business. He tells you, expressject was in question, I had the honor to assign my ly, that your ability, even with the revenue we reasons for believing that the duties would not possessed prior to the repeal of the internal taxes, exceed eight millions, supposing them to be regu- could not be relied on, if those estimates were larly and honestly paid. What have you in ad- fallacious. Now sir, if that fallacy has not been dition? Arrears of taxes, sales of land, and the demonstrated, it has at least been shown that the post office. The arrears of taxes will be noticed correctness of the estimates is questionable. And presently. They form part of the surplus already yet gentlemen are about to adopt these doubtful pledged. As to the post office, the fifty thousand estimates, and give to them the weight and credit dollars to be derived from that source ought to be of admitted facts. Your Secretary goes on to say, expended in the extension of communication; at in the same page, that these estimates "will not be any rate it is a trifle. The sales of lands, then, is affected by the repeal of the internal taxes, prothe only fair addition to the duties. I know no-vided, that the retrenchments made in the expenthing of the circumstances attending your lands. 'diture shall have been equal to the sum of $650,This fund may be prolific; it may produce noth-000, for which credit was taken on account of ing. I have, however, many reasons to believe that it will yield less than it has done, but admit that, (instead of 400,000 dollars, the sum estimated by the Secretary,) it should amount to half a a million. Admit that your duties produce eight millions, you can then count upon eight and a half. Deduct for the support of Government, three and a half, there remains five. And on this you are about solemnly to pledge yourselves for seven. Let gentlemen consider well what they do. Here is no logical, no metaphysical argument. You can neither deceive others, nor have poor excuse of ignorance for yourselves. It is a question to be solved by the first rules of arithmetic. You are now about to vote against arithmetical demonstration, and that vote shall be recorded. This, I tell you, is one of the most serious subjects you have yet touched; and seriously will you have to answer for the vote which is now to be given. Consider, then, what you are about. You are about to make appropriations in the face of facts. There must be a deficiency of funds. You know there must. Do you mean, then, to come forward next session, (when that deficiency becomes notorious) and repeal this law? Will you make a solemn mockery-a mere farceof legislation? What excuse can you devise? Folly is not sufficient. Nothing but madnessdownright madness-which indeed is an excuse for anything. the Gentlemen may, perhaps, suppose they can cover themselves under their confidence in the Secretary. I will not examine the decency of that defence, but I tell them it will not serve their turn. Look at the language of this Secretary, in whom they put their trust. In his report of December last he acknowledges that our revenues (taken at the amount he states in that report) will fall short of satisfying this appropriation, and the cur those taxes." Is, then, the Secretary pledged by anything in this report? Not at all. He tells you if your revenue is sufficient, you can make the appropriation, and as you retrench your expenditures, you may diminish the taxes. He tells you, if the retrenchment be equal to the diminution, the diminution will not affect the appropriation. But he tells you expressly, that even if the truth of his estimates be admitted, the appropriation proposed will occasion a deficiency of $200,000, to which must be added 650,000 more for repeal of the internal taxes. Here then you have a deficiency of $850,000, to be made up by economy and retrenchment. The language of your Secretary, therefore, is, if you admit the revenue to be $9,950,000, and reduce your expenditures for the support of Government from three millions and a half to $2,650,000, you will then have a residue of $7,300,000. But will your revenue amount to so much? No. Have you brought down your expenditures to a sum so small? No. Does the Secretary affirm either of those facts? No. When you shall find yourselves egregiously mistaken, and resort to your Secretary, he will tell you, that he gave you his calculations, and his reasons, and his opinions. That he told you so. But you reasoned and judged and acted for yourselves. Nay he will prove that, so far from vouching that your revenue would amount to the required sum, he had not only expressed a doubt of the fact, but went on to suggest an expedient by which the deficiency might (in appearance at least) be supplied. In the same page 21, he goes on thus: "But in order to run no risk on that ground, I would suggest a modification in the manner of making the appropriation which will effectually guard us, should the annual amount of the net receipts in the Treasury, be more affected by the restora'tion of peace than has been expected." Here then SENATE. Redemption of the Public Debt. you see that your Secretary is already employed in guarding against the deficiency, and against the complaints and reproaches which that deficiency must occasion. You will be pleased also to take notice, that this guard is to consist in the manner of making the appropriation. Thus it would seem that your Secretary thinks he can contrive to appropriate from your revenue in such a way as to be effectually guarded, if the revenue does not produce the sum appropriated. But, before you trust to these contrivances, you will do well to consider, that a determination to pay seven millions will not make seven millions. APRIL, 1802. poses that, by way of modification, it constitute, in aid of the revenue, a part of the new sinking fund, and that this new sinking fund be charged with payment of the demands. Thus, after running round the circle, you have not advanced a single inch. Pretending to make an appropriation of seven millions from the revenue to the sinking fund, it is proposed to take more than three millions from that very fund to eke out deficiencies of the revenue. But, after all, this contrivance will not answer the intended purpose. All the surpluses, be the amount what it may, are already pledged to the payment of our debts; Let us now look at the Secretary's expedient. and this amount, be it more or less than the three We find it in the second section of the twenty-millions stated, must eventually be known with fifth page. After mentioning, in the section which precision. As far as it goes, it is a provision alprecedes it, a surplus of more than three millions, ready made for payment of the public debt; and which had been relied on for special purposes, if, for convenience, it be diverted to any other purand of which I shall presently take some notice pose, it must be afterwards replaced by an equivhe goes on thus: "Those estimated three millions alent sum. It is, then, proper to view the whole may, therefore, be safely relied on in addition to subject together. Your Secretary tells you that 'the permanent revenues; and the modification upwards of seven millions annually will be re'which I would suggest, consists in making the quired, for three years to come, to pay the principayment of the eventual demands, which may pal and interest of your debts, and to this must be 'becomes due to foreign nations, conditionally pay- added at least one million more for the demands able out of the proposed appropriation of $7,300,- under the convention with France and England. '000 for the debt, with a proviso, that both those de- Thus you have, in three years, to pay twenty-four 'mands and the temporary loans might be paid out millions. Three millions and more are in hand, of other moneys, if the situation of the Treasury belonging to the sinking fund; of course you have 'should permit it. The effect of this modification the means to pay off these demands. But, seeing 'would be, eventually, to draw the three millions a great probability that your revenue will fall 'reserved to assist the current revenues, if these short, these three millions are to be applied (in aid should fall short of the estimates." We find here of it) to make up the seven millions which should perhaps the source of that enigmatical language be derived solely from the revenue. It is then a which gentlemen have with such solicitude de- loan from the present sinking fund to the revenue, fended against amendment. Before I examine, and must be repaid. It operates, we will suppose, however, this modification of the plan held out to to reduce the twenty-four millions to twenty-one us in December, permit me to say some few words millions; still those twenty-one millions must be about the three million fund. The Secretary tells paid within three years, and that from the revenue. us these three millions were considered as a pro-You, indeed, authorize a loan in Europe to meet vision to meet the probable demands which might arise under the convention with France and the treaty with Great Britain. They were to be derived from the surplus of specie in the Treasury, a sale of bank stock, arrearages of the direct tax, and the stamp duties. The repeal of these last. he tells you, will be more than balanced by arrearages of the internal taxes, which amount to a million. The cash in the Treasury exceeds three million. The bank stock is worth more than a million. Thus we have more than five million, besides the arrears of the direct tax. The conclusion of the Secretary, therefore, that these funds may be relied on for three millions, is so much the more correct, as he has now, in cash, in the Treasury, a greater amount. I must also remind gentlemen of the distinction they dwelt on the other day between debts and demands; a distinction which runs through the law before us. They have insisted that these demands form no part of the debt properly so called. Now they will be pleased to recollect, that the three millions of surplus revenue are already pledged to the sinking fund for payment of the debt. Your Secretary, however, sets it apart to pay these demands, which it seems are no part of the debt; and now he pro emergencies, but you repel the idea of paying your present debt by incurring a new debt to a greater amount. You do not, I presume, mean to subject yourselves to this imputation. Of course, the sums so borrowed must be applied in addition to the seven millions. These foreign loans, then, like the three millions borrowed from the sinking fund, are merely for convenience; and the twentyone millions are still to be paid within three years, from the revenue of those years. If there be a deficit, therefore, of two millions annually, it must eventually appear and be felt. You may, indeed, by this contrivance, provide for the exigency of the moment, but it amounts to nothing. You may amuse yourselves. from morning till night, by taking money out of one pocket and putting it in the other, you will not be one farthing the richer. Suppose, sir, your revenue should fall short of your expectation; suppose that, alto gether, it should amount to but eight millions You pledge, by this act, seven millions. Of course there remains but one million to pay the current expenses, which will require at least three mil lions. I presume that gentlemen mean to make this seven millions a real appropriation, notwith standing the mysterious words of their law, and not a mere trick. They surely do not mean to deceive the American people by false appearances. What, then, will they do should they find a deficiency of two millions? Will they come forward again with a violation of the public faith, and repeal this law, after making loans on the redit of it? Or, will they come forward and lay two millions of taxes upon the United States? Here they perish. They have thrown away one alion, and must lay on two. We may, perhaps, Le told that we wish to perpetuate the national debt. We may hear the trite adage that a public debt is a public blessing, and other pretty sayings. But away with all this paltry witticism; the subect is too serious. Let it be remembered, sir, once for all, that those who make the necessity, are those who lay the . If then by this law taxes become necessary, hey impose a tax who vote for this law. Yes, you are about to impose a tax of two millions on the American people. Under the circumstances to which they will be reduced, that tax will be extremely burdensome. It will be oppressive. You are about to lay, without necessity, without rea, a most heavy tax. It is madness, it is worse an madness. You will drive many valuable citens out of the United States, to avoid the presare of taxation, into Canada and Louisiana-thus You will add to the wealth and strength of neighng nations, of nations who may soon become stile. This is treason!-high_treason against interests of our country! Look to it well. You who vote for this law, shall answer for the ricious consequences. It has been said, and may perhaps be repeated, at you can reduce the expense below the present tandard. You cannot. I do not mean that you annot make a piece of paper in the form of a law to that effect, but imperious circumstances will rener the reduction impracticable. I ask which anch of service is to be reduced? Is it the maAlready your little force is employed in cking up a piratical port, and you may to-morhear that Morocco has taken part with TripThis may increase, but cannot diminish the pease of your Navy. You may indeed destroy arships, and leave commerce to take care of This I hear is a favorite idea with some But what, in this case, is to become of your enue? Among the other wise acts of this Conwe have thrown away every means of supPing Government and paying debts, except those ch commerce may supply. As little is it in power to reduce that little force which is led your Army. Without looking abroad, there ne circumstance of a domestic nature deservof attention. A considerable portion of the abitants of this country is of a particular speof the human race. Évents have taken place, no great distance, which awaken their curiosity excite their sympathy. Recent information, a a neighboring State, exhibits symptoms of a position which may render the operation of mily force indispensable. I will not dilate on this ject, it is better that gentlemen listen to the ggestions of their own minds than to arguments 7th CON.-10 SENATE. which it may not be prudent to utter. One thing however I must mention: the supporters of the act before us, will be pleased to consider that to suppose the Army can be reduced, would be a reflection upon the present Administration. We know they claim the merit of great economy, and we must therefore presume that they have brought the Army down to the lowest possible standard. It anything more can be saved, why is not that saving now made? Since, then, there is no proposition to that effect, we are bound (out of respect to them) to believe that the idea is inadmissible. But now, sir let us suppose that your revenue should be equal to this appropriation. What folfows? It follows that the appropriation is unnecessary. You will observe, that even by this law, every surplus beyond the seven million is subject to the former appropriations. If, after providing for the current service, seven or seventeen million remain, laws long since enacted make that remainder part of the sinking fund. Every provision, therefore, is made already for redemption of the whole of the public debt-every useful provision. That which is now proposed is useless in so far as it can apply to the existing means of Government, and it is useless in that it can produce no single cent to fulfil the pretended intention. But while in this respect it is unnecessary and useless, it is in another respect pernicious. While the revenue is sufficient, it remains without effect; but it imposes upon the Government a necessity of taxing the people to the extent of any deficiency in the revenue, or else to violate the public faith, to be pledged by this appropriation. What then is the effect of this law? Either it is a miserable deception or else it is an appropriation at once useless and dangerous. Mr. WRIGHT. The Secretary of the Treasury has told us that this measure is proper. He, sir, has given us many reasons in the premises. We are told by the Secretary, bottoming himself, sir, upon a full view of all the finances of this country, that seven million three hundred thousand dollars may be appropriated. We must believe him. He is, the proper Executive officer. This is his measure. If this bill is rejected, where is the public faith which gentlemen say so much about? It is ruined. I believe there is a disposition to resist the Goverament; but we will support the operations of Government. We have confidence. Let gentlemen tell us how they made calculations of what sums were necessary. I am clear that this measure is right, and if it should become necessary to tax our citizens, they are honest enough to bear it. The gentleman from New York, says we shall drive them by the weight of taxes into Canada and Louisiana. If, sir, we have any citizens so base that they would, from that cause, or from any other cause, run away to Canada or to Louisiana, the sooner they go the better. I don't want any such citizens. I hope, sir, we shall pass this law, and not be terrified by the idea that we must lay new taxes. On the question, Shall the bill pass? it was carried in the affirmative-yeas 17, nays 10, as follows: SENATE. Proceedings. APRIL, 1802. YEAS-Messrs. Anderson, Baldwin, Bradley, Breck-hundred and two, was, by unanimous consent, enridge, Brown, Clinton, Cocke, Ellery, T. Foster, read the second time, and referred to Messrs. Franklin, Jackson, Logan, S. T. Mason, Nicholas, BRADLEY, LOGAN, and WELLS, to consider and Stone, Sumter, and Wright. report thereon. NAYS-Messrs. Dayton, Dwight Foster, Howard, J. Mason, Morris, Ogden, Olcott, Tracy, Wells, and White. So it was Resolved, That this bill do pass with amendments. MONDAY, April 26. Mr. ELLERY, from the committee to whom was referred, on the 23d instant, the bill making an appropriation for the support of the Navy of the United States for the year one thousand eight hundred and two, reported amendments, which were read. Ordered, That they lie for consideration. A message from the House of Representatives informed the Senate that the House have passed a bill making appropriations for the Military Establishment of the United States for the year one thousand eight hundred and two; a bill making appropriations for the support of Government for the year one thousand eight hundred and two; and a bill to repeal so much of the acts-the one, entitled "An act establishing a Mint, and regulating the coins of the United States;" the other an act, entitled "An act supplementary to the act establishing the Mint, and regulating the coins of the United States," as relate to the establishment of the Mint; in which bills they desire the concurrence of the Senate. They insist on their amendments disagreed to by the Senate to the bill, entitled "An act further to alter and establish certain post roads," and agree to the conference proposed by the Senate thereon, and have appointed managers on their part. On motion, it was agreed, by unanimous consent, that the bill to repeal the acts establishing the Mint, and regulating the coins of the United States, be now read the second time. On the question. Shall this bill pass to a third reading? it passed in the negative. The bill, entitled "An act to regulate and fix the compensations of the officers of the Senate and House of Representatives," was read the third time, and passed. The bill, entitled "An act to abolish the Board of Commissioners in the City of Washington, and to make provision for the repayment of loans made by the State of Maryland for the use of the city," was read the third time. Resolved, That this bill do pass as amended. The Senate resumed the third reading of the bill, entitled "An act for the relief of the widow and orphans of certain persons who have died, o may hereafter die, in the naval service of the Uni ted States." On motion to strike out the second section o the bill, to wit: The three bills first mentioned in the message were read. "SEC. 2. And be it further enacted, That if any con missioned or warrant officer of the Navy, or commi sioned officer of Marines, have died, or shall hereafte die, by reason of wounds received while in the actu service of the United States, or have been lost at se or drowned, or shall hereafter be lost at sea or drowne while in service as aforesaid, and in the actual line his duty, and shall leave a widow, or if not, leave child or children, under age, such widow, or such chi or children, as the case may be, shall be entitled t and receive, the half of the monthly pay to which t deceased was entitled at the time of his death, and f and during the term of five years. And in case of t death or intermarriage of such widow, before the e The Senate resumed the second reading of the piration of the said term of five years, the half pay i bill to extend and continue in force the provisions the residue of the term shall go to the child or ch of an act, entitled "An act giving a right of pre-dren of such deceased officer while under the age emption to certain persons who have contracted with John C. Symmes or his associates, for lands lying between the Miami rivers in the Territory Northwest of the Ohio, and for other purposes.' Ordered, That this bill pass to the third reading as amended. year The bill making appropriations for the Military Establishment of the United States in the one thousand eight hundred and two, was, by unanimous consent, read the second time, and referred to Messrs. BRADLEY, HOWARD, and DAYTON, to consider and report thereon. The Senate took into consideration the amendments of the House of Representatives to the said bill, entitled "An act to amend the Judicial system of the United States." Resolved, That they do concur in all the amendments of the House of Representatives to the bill, except that which goes to strike out the fifteenth section, in which they do not concur. The bill making appropriations for the support of Government for the year one thousand eight sixteen years; and, in like manner, the allowance the child or children of such deceased, in case there no widow, shall be paid no longer than during t time there is a child or children under the age of si teen years." It passed in the affirmative-yeas 16, nays 8, follows: YEAS-Messrs. Anderson, Baldwin, Bradley, Brow Clinton, Cocke, Dayton, T. Foster, Franklin, Jackso S. T. Mason, Ogden, Olcott, Stone, Sumter, a Wright. NAYS-Messrs. Ellery, Dwight Foster, Howard, Mason, Morris, Nicholas, Wells, and White. And having agreed to strike out the third se tion, and to amend the title by striking out t words "or may hereafter die," it was Resolved, That this bill pass as amended. The bill, entitled "An act for the relief of Ti odosius Fowler," was read the third time; and the question, Shall this bill pass? it was det mined in the affirmative-yeas 14, nays 10, follows: |