and distorting others. He could tell his noble friend that he had been informed by one of his (the Marquis Camden's) own tenants, that he had lost 2007. by his farm last year, and consequently, though farmers did not throw up their farms, it did not follow that they were not losing. His noble friend had said that his rents were well paid. He congratulated his noble friend upon this: but the fact would prove nothing, unless his noble friend could show that those rents were not paid out of the tenants' capital. A noble lord (Suffield) had suggested that evening that reduction of rents would do good: but how did the distress of the landlords arise, except from the reduction or the utter withholding of rents? He could have no objection to any noble Lord reducing his rents as low as he pleased, but, in the name of other noble Lords, and in the name of the rest of the landlords of the country, he must protest against measures which were not only objectionable in other respects, but which must inevitably lead to that result as a matter of necessity. There were some parts of the country in which no reduction of rents could take place; for this simple reason-namely, that there were no rents at all paid. The parts of the country to which he alluded were those in which the poor-rates amounted to the full 20s. in the pound. The petitioners stated that the amount of taxation was greater than the country, under existing circumstances, could bear. Upon this statement he begged to observe, that taxation had been virtually doubled since 1819; that was to say, it was necessary to sell double the produce now to pay the same amount of taxation. The petitioners went on to state, that the poor-rates had increased to so great an amount as to leave no profit either to the landlord or to the tenant. Now, upon this subject he could state, that he knew of landed property upon which the assessment for poor-rates had doubled within the last fourteen years. He knew one farm, consisting of 1,341 acres, which paid 9941. per annum for poor-rates. He knew another instance in which the poor-rates amounted to 2,900l. a year, while the estimated rental of the estate was only 2,500l. He was acquainted also with a farm which let only for 50l. a year, while the rates and taxes levied upon the same farm amounted to 1127. a year. He could produce many other similar instances, but he should reserve them until the debate which was about to come on respecting free trade. The petitioners went on to complain of the evils which had arisen from want of sufficient protection to agriculture, and from those measures of free trade which were incompatible with the present situation of the country,-evils which had been greatly aggravated by the alteration of the currency. The petition concluded by a prayer, so common in similar petitions at present, for a reform in Parliament, conducted on proper principles. He perfectly concurred in the prayer of the petition for Parliamentary Reform thus limited. He had always expressed his disapprobation of what was called radical reform, and he still disapproved of it; but to limited and wholesome reform he was friendly, because he conceived, and recent experience had confirmed the opinion, that the House of Commons did not express the feelings of the people. Under such circumstances of distress as were general in all counties, and which were intolerable in some, he was not surprised that the people should call for reform in Parliament; but, in an ancient and dilapidated edifice like the Constitution of this country, they must be careful lest, in making alterations, they destroy the edifice itself. This cry for reform might not be very agreeable to the Government; but he was sure that if the object of Government had been to excite the people to raise this cry, it could not have taken any more effectual means than those which it had pursued. He would not detain their Lordships any longer, because he trusted he should have other opportunities of discussing all these topics fully. Petition read. The Marquis Camden said, that as his noble friend had thought proper to make a great many observations upon what he had felt it his duty to say in that House, he would tell their Lordships what he had meant to say on the occasion referred to. He had meant to say, that as far as his experience and means of observation would allow him to form an opinion on the subject, the distress complained of was not so great or so general as it had been represented to be by some persons in that and in the other House of Parliament. As to the County of Kent, he had said that the distress was not so great as it had been represented to be. He spoke from his own experience, and their Lordships would do him the justice to recollect that what he had said was founded upon a comparison which he had made between this and former years, the result of which comparison was, that the not. The Duke of Wellington. Certainly county was not so distressed as it had been ships after the result of the debate of the in former years. When, too, he had spoken other night. He had not the vanity to of a political party, he knew that political suppose that any thing he could say would opinions on certain subjects ran high in be of any avail, when he had seen how Kent, and he knew that political opinions useless had been the powerful and eloquent upon one point were often apt to influence appeals which noble Lords had made for men's conduct on others. It had been their distressed fellow-countrymen, who so with him, and he had no hesitation in called upon their Lordships to discharge confessing it. He had no hesitation in that duty which the country had a right to saying, that-it was a great many years demand. He should, however, feel that ago, certainly he had, with the father of he was wanting in respect to the petitioners his noble friend (Earl Stanhope), attended if he were silent now. In the few obserpublic meetings for the purpose of exciting vations he had to make he should confine popular feeling against a government of himself chiefly to some of the views which which he disapproved. He had meant to the petitioners took of the causes of their say nothing offensive in what had fallen distress, and to the ultimate result of those from him on this subject, and he trusted causes. He would not occupy the time of that, however his noble friend and he their Lordships in proving the existence of might differ in politics, their friendship that unparalleled distress, of which the would be undisturbed. As to what his country complained; nor would he afflict noble friend had said about the duties of a their Lordships by detailing the heart-rendLord-lieutenant, he appealed to the noble ing cases of misery which had come under Duke (of Wellington) behind him, if he had his own observation. He would, however, been officious in communicating informa- briefly but boldly assert, against the opinion tion to the Government. of the noble Marquis, whom he was proud to call his friend, that the distress which now pervaded the agricultural interest had not been exceeded in the memory of the oldest man living. He wished that noble Lords who expressed an opinion that the distress of the country was not so great as some persons imagined, had taken the trouble to inquire how rents were paid; if they had, they would find that in many instances the rents came out of the capital of the tenant, instead of coming out of the fair profits of the cultivation of the land, and that in other cases rents came out of the capital of the landlords themselves. Such was the case where pasture lands were broken up, and converted into arable lands. The noble Earl proceeded to allude to and deplore the diminution of the yeomanry of this country, who had formed the intermediate and connecting link between the landholder and the peasantry,-a class that, in the hour of trial and danger, Earl Stanhope, in explanation, said, he whether arising from foreign or domestic trusted his noble friend did not think he foes, had proved our best safeguard and dehad meant to say that his noble friend's fence. With respect to himself, his oppoconduct had proceeded from any but the sition to the measures of Government was most conscientious motives. As to distress- any thing rather than a factious opposition. ing the Government, he thought it the proper He opposed them upon principle, because course to excite noise, and he pleaded guilty he was convinced they were injurious to to the desire to excite noise, both in that the country. He had no longer any conHouse and out of it, when he found him-fidence in parties with whom he had been self beaten by numbers, and not by argu The Marquis Camden continued.-He had spoken as an independent Peer; and in that capacity he had thought it right to express the opinions he entertained. Again, if the county of Kent were as much distressed as it was said to be, or even more so, that could not prove that the country generally was distressed. Besides, it should be recollected that there was a peculiar culture in Kent-that of hops. The low price of that produce, and the duty upon it, might have made it very difficult for the growers to remunerate themselves. His noble friend had alluded to a tenant of his (Marquis Camden's) who had lost 2001. by his farm. He did not know who that tenant was, but he thought it not unlikely that a tenant who wished his rent to be reduced, or the day of payment deferred, would hit upon such an argument. ments. The Earl of Winchilsea said, he felt some reluctance to intrude upon their Lord previously allied,-for him, the ties of private and political friendship had been cruelly severed. He wished that the noble Duke, who now possessed an estate in Kent, could not obtain sufficient employment. The petitioners stated, that if things continued as they were, they must ultimately become unable to pay the taxes and their debts; that bankruptcy would be their portion, and ruin that of the State. He very much feared that matters would become worse and worse in the course of a few months, if some remedy were not resorted to. There was another point to which the petitioners alluded,-Parliamentary Reform. He would not enter into that subject further than to say, that in his opinion the people did not possess the weight and influence to which they were justly entitled in the Commons House of Parliament, and that an unconstitutional influence was frequently exercised in the return of its Members. But he was no radical reformer, and when the proper time came, would discuss the question on constitutional grounds. The Marquis Camden said, in explanation, that he had spoken of the state of things in his own neighbourhood, and represented it as improving. would spend some of his time there during the Easter recess, and inquire into the condition of the county; he would find the district of Romney Marsh, up the Weald of Kent, formerly celebrated for rich pasture lands, in a state of great distress. Capital was fast diminishing there, and the farms were not properly cultivated, on account of the poverty of the holders. He knew instances in which farms had been let for the next three years free from all charge in the shape of rent, on the condition that they should be properly cultivated. In many districts, the greater part of the labouring population was wholly unemployed, except during the few weeks of harvest. Let the noble Duke terminate his journey in Kent by a visit to the noble Marquis who had just addressed the House on the subject, and to the noble Earl below who had preceded him, and he would find, that the tenantry were in many cases remaining on their farms because they could not quit them without leaving their property behind, and selling it at a loss of 40, 50, or 60 per cent. He was informed by a county magistrate, such was the distress in the town of Chat- The Earl of Darnley observed, that some ham and the neighbouring district, that the apology might be expected from him for not magistrates were frequently employed from taking a part in the getting up of the pemorning till night in devising measures for tition, particularly as he was connected with the assistance of the poor. The petitioners the county from which it had emanated, stated, that the contraction of the currency and was known to be favourable to these was one cause of their distress. He agreed expressions of public opinion. But he had with them in this. Before we ventured to not interfered because he was convinced contract our currency, we should have di- that the distress complained of could not be minished the national debt. If we did not relieved in consequence of any proposition give the country a more extensive circula- of the meeting, and that the suggestions of tion, it would be impossible for us to struggle the noble Lord (supposing him to be famuch longer with our difficulties. He vourable to them) were likely enough to be was decidedly of opinion that the establish- counteracted. In 1822, when according ment of provincial banks, with liberty to to his opinion the distress was greater than issue notes (proper security being given), at present, a county meeting was held in would be advantageous to the county in Kent, at which Mr. Cobbett attended and which he resided. Another cause of em- proposed an equitable adjustment. On that barrassment to which the petitioners alluded occasion, acting, as he thought, the part of an was, the system of taking off prohibitory honest man, he had opposed the proposition, duties, and allowing articles of foreign pro- but he stood almost alone in his opposition, duce to compete with the produce of native and it was carried by acclamation. industry. If the unequal pressure of tax- another county meeting in Kent, the noble ation under which English agriculturists Earl proposed a loyal Address, when up suffered, as compared with those of foreign started an auctioneer, from Rochester, countries, could be removed, he should be knocked down the proposition, floored the an advocate for a free trade in corn, and noble Earl, and his second, and bottle-holder a free admission of foreign produce; but as (a noble Lord not now in his place), and matters stood, t present, he maintained upset the entire proceeding. [Laughter] that free trade had been attended with very Would the noble Earl say, that on this remischievous effects upon the interests of this cent occasion the majority of the meeting country, inasmuch as it had been the means were not in favour of an invasion of Church of introducing the competition of foreign property? Let it be recollected that a relabour, at a time when our own population solution against tithes was eventually car At ried. The grounds of his reluctance to attend the meeting were now explained. He could truly state that the distress was not so general as had been represented; and he was of opinion, that having already reached the lowest point of depression, our condition would improve. The Petition adverted to the Currency and the Cornlaws he believed and trusted that the noble Duke at the head of the Government was determined to tamper with neither. An interference with them could only be productive of mischief. Ministers had done what they could to alleviate distress by a reduction of taxation, which, it was admitted on all hands, must be serviceable to the country. Besides, Government had pledged itself to take the earliest opportunity of effecting still further reductions. If any man could point out better or speedier means of relief than had been brought forward, he would go hand and heart with him; but nothing more efficacious had been discovered. It should be the object of their Lordships rather to endeavour to hold out to the people consolation and hopes of better times, than to draw exaggerated pictures of distress, and say, bad as things were they would become worse. The noble Earl having observed that the meeting at which the petition was agreed on was a highly respectable one, concluded by stating that he felt as anxious as the noble Lords? who preceded him to relieve the distress, but could not countenance the adoption of doubtful and hazardous remedies. Earl Stanhope said, with respect to the idea of the majority of the meeting being favourable to the counter-petition, he thought the majority was for the original proposition, but admitted that if so it was by no means a large majority. However, it was all matter of opinion, and the High Sheriff had decided differently. The noble Earl (Darnley) had alluded to former meetings at which he (Earl Stanhope) was not present, and stated that a proposition for an equitable adjustment was carried at one of them. He was not a friend to what was called equitable adjustment, beccause he thought it could not be effected in an equitable manner. However, to that we must come at last, or adopt an issue of paper money. He did not wish to allow bankers to make such issues without requiring from them proper security, and would rather have country bankers the distributors than the creators of paper money. He should not object, for instance, to an issue of Government paper. Noble Lords talked of the benefits of reduction of taxation; was the noble Duke prepared to reduce our expenditure and taxation to the scale of 1791? Was he prepared to reduce the debt fifty or sixty per cent and all fixed payments in the same proportion? If not, he must consent to the issue of paper money to enable the country to bear the burthen of taxation, which had been virtually doubled within the last ten years. Lord Suffield expressed his partial concurrence in the statements of the noble Earl behind him, who had drawn with such strong colouring a picture of the distress experienced in Kent. Many of the noble Earl's remarks would apply to the county (Norfolk) with which he was himself connected. He regretted as much as the noble Earl the diminution that had taken place in the class of yeomanry: persons of from 500l. to 1,500l. a year had felt the pressure in a very extensive degree. However, he did not think the distress attributable to any act of the noble Duke, or the Government: on the contrary, he was of opinion that it was the result of longcontinued circumstances over which they did not possess any control. He should oppose the Ministers whenever he considered their measures to merit opposition; but he did not think them wrong or deserving of censure at present. Petition to lie upon the Table. FREE-TRADE IMPORTS AND EXPORTS.] Earl Stanhope said, he understood it was not the intention of his Majesty's Ministers to offer any opposition to the production of the Returns which he wished to obtain, the motion for which he had given notice of on a former day. This being the case, he should not enter into the subject which the Returns involved upon the present occasion, reserving to himself the right, at a future opportunity, when the accounts were before the House, to make his observations on the question of Free Trade. The noble Earl moved for accounts of the declared value of Foreign Manufactured Silk imported into Great Britain in 1826, and the three subsequent years; of the English Manufactured Silks exported in 1823, and each subsequent year; of the value of articles of Leather imported in each year subsequent to 1823; of the quantity of Gloves imported within the same time; of our Exports and Imports generally to and from France in 1823 and every subsequent year; also for an account of the expenses incurred in the mainte nance of the Preventive Service, from its establishment up to the latest period at! which they could be made out. The Duke of Wellington said, he had no objection to the Returns being furnished, | and should himself move for the production of further returns, explanatory of the subject, upon a future day. HOUSE OF COMMONS. MINUTES.] Mr. A. ELLIS moved an humble Address to his Majesty, requesting that the House might be furnished with a "copy of a Circular Letter addressed by Mr. PEEL to different Public Offices, in favour of the Society for superseding the use of Climbing Boys in the sweeping of chimnies; a list of Publie Offices to which the same was addressed, and the number of Flues in each that have been swept by Boys or cleaned by the Machine, since the date of the Circular: shewing also in which of such buildings, the Agents of the Society for superseding Climbing Boys, or Sweeps that keep Boys are employed." Agreed to. A message came from the Lords, requesting a copy of the Report of the Committee of Inquiry on the case of Sir JONAH BARRINGTON; and a copy of the evidence on which the House passed the Bill for Disfranchising the Borough of East Retford. The Lease of Lands Bill (Ireland) was read a second time. The Indemnity Bill was read a third time and passed. A Bill to regulate the Importation of Arms into Ireland was brought in by Lord F. L. GowER, and read a first time; year from 1819 to 1829, inclusive, and the rate of Duty "on each article; ordered 18th March:-The number of Passengers to and from Ireland by the Liverpool Government Packets; ordered 17th March:-Also, returns of unsettled demands on the funds provided by the Government of France for liquidating the claims of British subjects, and of the unappropriated balance of the Funds; ordered 18th February:-And the Annual Accounts of Trade and Navigation, Petitions presented. Against the Renewal of the East India Company's Charter By Mr. MARSHALL, from three different places in the Clothing district of Yorkshire :-By Mr. S. WORTLEY, from Wortley :-By Sir M. W. RIDLEY, from the Merchants and Inhabitants of Newcastle-uponTyne. By Mr. H. DAVIS, from the Licensed Victuallers of Bristol, against throwing open the Beer Trade-Referred to the Committee on the Beer Licensing System. By Sir J.WROTTESLEY from the Inhabitants of Stoke-uponTrent, complaining of Distress:-By Sir W. W. WYNN, from Denbighshire, with the same prayer. By Mr. WARBURTON, from Bridport, for a reform in the Criminal Law: By Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN from the Protestant Dissenters meeting in Worship-street Chapel, Finsburysquare, with the same prayer. By Mr. W. SMITH, from TRIVETT ALCOCK, of Norwich, in favour of the Jews:And by Lord JOHN RUSSELL, from the Letter-press Printers of Sheffield, praying for a reduction in the Newspaper Stamp Duty. The petitioners stated as their opinion, that if this Duty were reduced from 4d. to 2d., and the Duty on Advertisements reduced from 3s. 6d. to 28. the revenue would be increased. MISREPRESENTATION.] Colonel Sibthorp, in presenting a Petition in favour of the Selby and Liverpool Railway Bill, from the inhabitants of Lincoln, said, he availed as were a Bill to amend and consolidate the laws respecting himself of that opportunity to rectify an Tolls, (Ireland), and a Bill to extend the powers of Grand Juries (Ireland) in the execution of the Act of 58 Geo. 3rd, relative to Fever Hospitals. Returns Presented. Annual Accounts of Public Expenditure, Consolidated Fund, Public Funded Debt, Un funded Debt, Dispositions of Grants, Arrears and Balances: -Also Accounts of Amounts paid in each of the last four years for Half-pay, and Retired Allowances; ordered, 8th February and 22nd March:-Also Accounts of the quantity of Spirits that paid Duty in each Kingdom, from 10th October, 1825, to 5th January, 1830, and amount of Spirits Distilled, and of Spirits exported to and from each Kingdom, and amount of Duty:-Also Account of Monies received in respect of Droits, and from surplus of four and-a-half per cent :---Account of Malt charged with Duty, and Malt made; the amount of Duties-paid in each collec tion of Excise in the year ended 5th January, 1850:-Also account of Amount paid as Drawback on Malt under the Acts 1 and 2 Geo. 4. c. 82, 4 Geo. 4. c. 94, and 6 Geo. 4 c.58; ordered 18th February:-Also Accounts of the number of acres of Land under cultivation of Hops, and of the Hop Duty for 1829; ordered 8th February:-Also Accounts of the number of barrels of Beer, exported in the year ended 5th January, 1830; the quantity made; of the number of Barrels exported in each year from 5th January, 1825, to 5th January, 1830; number of Barrels brewed in the year ended 5th January, 1850; and number of Brewers in Great Britain; ordered 8th February :Also accounts of the quantity of Soap made in each town of Great Britain in 1827, 1828 and 1829, the quantity exported in 1828 and 1829, the duty repaid as Drawback allowances made to manufacturers of Silks, &c.; distinguishing the hard from the soft Soap and quantity exported to Ireland during the years 1827, 1828, and 1829; ordered 26th February :-Also Account of the contract prices of Bread and Meat from 1819 to the present time, so far as relates to the Commissariat Department; ordered 2nd March:-Returns of the establishment of the Commissariat on the 1st January, 1817, 1822, and 1850, and of all the Appointments and Promotions since 1828; ordered 12th March:-Also Accounts of the principal articles charged with Duties of Excise in cach error which had gone abroad with respect to what he had uttered in the late debate on the motion of the hon. Member for Shaftesbury. That morning a letter had been put into his hands, purporting to come from a respectable inhabitant of London, and written under the misconception which this inaccuracy in his speech had naturally originated. He was represented to have stated that Mr. Jacob or Mr. Poole would have been roughly handled in the event of their trusting themselves in Lincoln. But such an innuendo he had never intended to convey. What he did really say was, that he regretted the noble Duke should not have had recourse to better means of obtaining information, before he depended upon such authorities for the price of Corn as Mr. Jacob, or for the price of Wool and Meat as Mr. Giblett. In noticing this mis-statement, he could not forbear to add, that he had no reason to complain of the newspaper press generally. He should now postpone his notice of a motion for the accommodation of reporters, until Thursday, the 13th of May. DISTRESS.] Sir T. E. Winnington presented a Petition from the freeholders of Worcestershire, complaining of Distress, and praying for an alteration in the Currency, and also for Parliamentary |