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donderry, in presenting a Petition from the Coal-whippers of London, praying their Lordships to remedy certain abuses in the Coal-trade, observed, that the Committee sitting up-stairs was likely to throw much light on the monstrous frauds committed in the port of London with respect to the article of Coals. He was happy also to say, that he believed the Corporation of the City of London would come forward and remedy these evils. He had observed, indeed, that a measure was in progress in another place, to substitute the practice of selling coals by weight, for selling them by measure, which would tend greatly to remove the abuses.

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SHIPPING INTEREST.] Earl Stanhope, in presenting a Petition from the Shipowners of Kingston-upon-Hull, praying that a reduction of the expenses in every partment of the Government might be effected, and that means might be taken to produce a more equal distribution of the burthens of the people, observed, that it was no answer to the complaints of the Ship-owners, to show that a large amount of tonnage was employed, for he could prove, that in that respect, the greatest possible fallacies existed; for though the amount of tonnage was considerable, the freights were very low. He wished to ask the noble Duke at the head of the Government, whether he had any objection to the appointment of a Select Committee to consider the state of the Shipping Interest?

The Duke of Wellington replied, that he did not understand the noble Earl to have shewn any ground for appointing such a Committee. If the noble Earl made a motion upon the subject, he should be better able to give it a direct answer.

Earl Stanhope said, he was quite ready to make such a motion; but he begged to remind the noble Duke, that this was by no means the first petition which had been presented on the subject, so that it could. hardly be new to the Government.

without making some other class suffer from the advantage conferred on them.

SPEAKERS OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS.] The Lord Chancellor, in giving notice, that he would, on Friday next, move the second reading of two Bills, one relating to the Property of Lunatics, and the other to Contempt of the Court of Chancery, informed their Lordships, that his Majesty had been graciously pleased to issue two commissions; one authorising Lord Tenterden to act as Speaker to their Lordships' House in the absence of the Lord Chancellor; and the other authorising Lord Wynford to act as Speaker in the absence of Lord Tenterden and the Lord Chancellor. The two Commissions were, on the Motion of the Lord Chancellor, read by the clerk.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Monday, March 15.

MINUTES.]

THOMAS GARDINER BRANSTON, Esq. took the

Oaths and his Seat as Member for the County of Essex. A Report of the Committee on the Wexford Election was submitted to the House to the following effect:

"That the right of election for the Borough of Wexford, was not in the description of persons that was set forth in the Petition, but that it consisted in such persons as had served an apprenticeship of seven years to freemen, or had resided in the Borough of Wexford at the period of their admission to the freedom, or had carried on business for six years in Wexford, pursuant to statute 14 and 15 Charles 2nd, and the new rules for the better encouragement of Protestants to take up their residence in different towns in Ireland:

"That Sir ROBERT WIGRAM, Knt., was not duly elected at the last election; but that Sir EDWARD CHOLMELEY DERING, Bart., was duly elected, and ought to have been returned:

"That neither the Petition against the return, nor the opposition to it, was frivolous or vexatious:

"That from certain facts which had been disclosed in the proceedings before the Committee, they deemed it expedient that the Evidence should be printed and laid before the House."-Ordered.

The Galway Franchise Bill was brought in and read a first

time; and the Pensions and Duties Bill was read a third time and passed.

Petition from the Tradesmen of Merthyr Tidvill, against any alteration in the laws relative to the Payment of Wages; presented by Sir CHARLES MORGAN.-From the Iron-Masters of Merthyr Tidvill, and from the Tradesmen of Bedwelty; by Sir Christopher ColE.-From the Tradesmen in Dudley; by Sir THOMAS WINNINGTON; all complaining of great Distress.

The Petitions against the renewal of the East India Company's

noble Duke called himself (as no doubt he was) a friend to the Shipping Interests; but he declined to take any means for increasing the freights of the Ship-owners. He would give notice of his motion on a future day.

The Duke of Wellington said, he had not declined to do any thing that would assist the Shipping Interest. All he had said was, that he could not adopt means to benefit them, by raising their freights,

Charter, from the inhabitants of Pontefract; by Mr. HOULDSWORTH:- from Darlington, and Stockton-uponTees; by Lord WILLIAM POWLETT:-from Bury; by Lord STANLEY:-from the Corporations of Perth and Dumbarton; by Mr. A. CAMPBELL. Petition, praying for the repeal of the Duty on Hops, from Ewhurst, Burwash, and Etchingham; by Mr. BERNAL. Petition, praying for the repeal of the Malt Duty, from the Hundred of Taverham (Norfolk); by Mr. WODEHOUSE. Petitions, complaining of Distress from the inhabitants of the Hundred of Hoxne; by Sir EDWARD KERRISON. From the Shipowners of Scarborough; by Mr. WILLIAM DUNCOMBE. From the inhabitants of Cripplegate Without; by Mr. ALDERMAN WOOD. From the inhabitants of the county of Flint and Holywell; by Sir EDWARD LORD,

Returns were presented of the number of Inquests held by Commissioners of Wide Streets in Dublin, and the sums paid to the Jurors:-Of the amount of First Fruits received during the last ten years:-Of the memorial of Francis M'Bryan and others to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, relative to the Sub-Sheriff of Fermanagh :-Of the number of causes set down in the Court of Session of Scotland, for the first time, in each year since 1811, and of other matters relating to this Court.

Returns were ordered, on the Motion of Mr. BERNAL, of all

Sums of Money voted by the House of Assembly in the

island of Jamaica, in 1825, 1826, and 1827, describing in

what manner it was appropriated:-Of the number of the

King's troops in that island in those years:-On the Motion

of Mr. WARBURTON, of the number of the Commissioners

of Bankrupts in London, distinguishing whether they are Barristers or not, and whether they hold any office.

TANJORE AND CARNATIC COMMISSIONS.] A Bill to continue the Tanjore Commission for a limited time having been read a second time, and a Motion made to commit it,

on the score of morality, the duties on Tobacco ought to be lowered; nor did he think that the interests of the State would suffer by such a measure. If the duty which was 3s. per pound were reduced to 1s. 6d. he was persuaded that the consumption of Tobacco would increase in proportion, and the revenue receive no injury. As the right hon. Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, was to bring forward his financial plan for the year that night, he hoped that a large reduction of the duties on Tobacco would be included in that plan.

DISTRESS IN SCOTLAND-TAXATION.] Mr. John Campbell presented a Petition from the noblemen, freeholders, &c. of Dumbartonshire, complaining of Distress, Mr. Hume inquired whether the Bill and praying for Relief by reduction of Taxwould cost the country any additional ation. The hon. Member said, that expense, and whether it was to be expected though he did not admit the country to that the affairs into which these Commis- be in that state of distress which some sions were instituted to inquire, would hon. Members thought, and in this he ever be arranged. In particular he wished agreed with the petitioners, yet it unto observe, that the Carnatic Commis-doubtedly was suffering to a considerable sioners had sat during two or three gene- extent. He would not inquire into the causes rations, and it was high time that their of that distress, but much of it he thought inquiries, unless the Commission were to was to be attributed to the alteration in be eternal, should be brought to a close. the currency. He did not wish to have Mr. Astell, in reply, stated, the Bill another alteration, but if Parliament were would cause no additional expense. It to institute an inquiry, it would at least was only to enable the Tanjore Com- learn to what extent its own measures had missioners to examine witnesses on oath, caused the evils, and it might find some and continue that Commission for a fur- means of alleviating them. This was the ther period. He could inform the hon. view of the petitioners, who also expressed Member, that the Carnatic Commissioners their confidence in the Government. Mihad presented their last report, and that nisters had already evinced a disposition the whole business of that Commission to afford relief: and he had every hope was about to be brought to a close. that the statement which they were about to hear from the right hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would prove that still more effectual measures of relief were in contemplation.

SMUGGLING TOBACCO.] Mr. II. Davis, in presenting a Petition from persons dealing in Tobacco in Bristol, praying for the reduction of the duties on Tobacco, observed that he could not avoid expressing his surprise, that these duties should have been suffered to continue so long. The evils they inflicted on the community were of great magnitude, for which the revenue derived from them was no compensation. The illicit trade carried on in Tobacco was enormous. No vigilance could guard against the temptation afforded by a duty that in amount was nine times the value of the article. Tobacco formed the bulk of every illicit cargo. Smuggling was almost as bad as stealing, to which it frequently led, and therefore, if it were only

Mr. Cutlar Fergusson said, that though the distress in Scotland was not as great as that in England, yet there was great suffering amongst the agricultural classes there. The price of cattle was so low,— he spoke chiefly of the county of Kircudbright,-that people could not get the price for them which they themselves gave last year, and he believed the same might be said of other counties. The result was, that the farmers could not pay their rents except out of their capital, and the distress of the lower classes, though they had hitherto done pretty well, were now suffering extremely. The only remedy

to which the people now looked was a re-priety to the reasonable expectations of
duction of taxation, and he hoped it would
be largely administered that evening.

the people at large, holding us bound, as
they do, to lay before Parliament as soon
and as distinctly as possible, the course
which we deem it right and expedient to

Sir G. Murray was surprised and sorry to hear such a statement as that of the hon. Gentleman. He could state, how-pursue. ever, that in other counties a different state of things existed, and that in the county which he had the honour to represent (Perthshire) no such distress was known. He had received an account that day from one of the greatest landed proprietors in that county, who stated that his rents were never more regularly paid than at present. From what he had heard, he should be disposed to form a different opinion from that just expressed by the hon. Member for Kircudbright.

Sir G. Warrender said, that he could state as a landed proprietor of that county to which the gallant officer had alluded, that he could not get a farthing of rent, and he believed other counties in Scotland were in no better situation, though the rents had been reduced forty per cent since 1814.

Mr. W. Dundas denied altogether that Scotland was in the distress which the hon. Member described. If wages had fallen, so had the price of the necessaries of life-if the prices of cattle had fallen, it was a relief to the farmer that wages had fallen also, and that rents had been lowered. From what he knew of Scotland he could not concur in the opinion that the agriculturists and the labourers were suffering in any extreme degree.

In the present depressed state of the country, and when great anxiety is manifested by all classes respecting the measures which his Majesty's Government intend to propose to Parliament, it is right that the House of Commons should, as early as possible, be made acquainted with the views and intentions of the responsible advisers of the Crown. This, I say, becomes doubly necessary at a time of such general anxiety, which, on the one hand, fills people with exaggerated expectations of the measures which Parliament is likely to adopt, and of the means of relief which it is capable of affording; and on the other, calls forth so much unwillingness to give credit to the Government for feeling that sympathy which it ought and does feel towards the suffering portion of society. It therefore becomes highly desirable that the measures to be submitted to Parliament should be known immediately, in order to prove, if possible, how little ground there is, in justice and in truth, either for those exaggerated expectations on the one hand, or that unreasonable distrust which is to be found on the other. When last I had the honour of making a similar statement to the House to that I am now about to lay before it, I adverted to what was then said on the subject of depression, and I Mr. E. Davenport said, it was a proof ventured to express a hope that the emof the distress of the country when a Mi-barrassment of that period would not prove It is perfectly true, nister of the Crown made a boast of one of long continuance. landholder in Perth receiving his rents. Sir, that my expectations on that point have not been realised. Different circumThe Petition to lie on the Table. stances have occurred during the past year FINANCES OF THE COUNTRY.] The to protract the duration of those diffiChancellor of the Exchequer having moved culties, and to increase the pressure upon that the House resolve itself into a Com- the people somewhat beyond that which I mittee to consider the several Acts relating had anticipated. In thus merely touching, to the Excise, and the Speaker having ac- as I do, upon this topic, I have no intencordingly left the Chair, the right hon. tion of entering into a discussion of the Gentleman proceeded to address the Com-circumstances which have aggravated the mittee as follows:-I avail myself of the difficulties we had to contend against, or opportunity afforded on the present oc- of the causes which excite the present casion, of bringing thus early before the anxiety of the people, for I am anxious to House the views of his Majesty's Govern-disembarrass my statement of anything ment respecting the financial concerns of the country, and I do so, not more in deference to the wishes expressed by this House, than in compliance with my own sense of what is due in justice and in pro

which could add to its length or interfere with its simplicity; and I am the more disposed to put this restraint upon myself, as a day has been fixed for discussing at large the state of the country. I shall,

that I should now repeat. Having made these allowances, I expressed my belief that the revenue of the year 1829 would amount to 51,340,000l. It appears, however, as by reference to papers now on the Table of the House, hon. Members may have the means of ascertaining-that the actual produce of the Revenue of that

certainly, Sir, by following this method, best consult my own convenience; but that I should not regard, were I not persuaded that I am, at the same time, attending to the feelings and the wishes of the House, by abstaining from any notice of that part of the public affairs which the Motion I have just alluded to will bring distinctly under the consideration of Par-year has fallen short of the sum I anticiliament. When I put that subject aside, however, I wish, on the part of myself and my colleagues, to state, whica I do, in order to prevent any misunderstanding or misrepresentation, that I put it aside not because we feel no sympathy or commisseration with that part of the people of this country now enduring distress-far from it, I shall, before I sit down, give the best evidence that it is in the power of any man to give, that we have exerted, and continue to exert, our best endeavours to alleviate, as far as we possibly can, the difficulties of the country, but because, as I have just said, the Motion to be brought forward by the hon. Member for Shrewsbury will afford a far more convenient opportunity for discussing it. In admitting the existence of difficulties, however, I again wish to guard against being misunderstood. Whatever difficulties we have to contend against, I think there is no cause for despondency or permanent alarm-no ground to entertain apprehensions for the stability or the resources of the country. I shall now, Sir, without further preface, enter into the question more immediately before me; but I cannot do so without, in the first instance, calling the attention of the House to the revenue and expenditure of the year which has just passed away. In doing this, I am anxious at the outset to justify the statement I formerly made to Parliament, and to show the House, from a consideration of the Revenue of the past year, the more especially when those causes are taken into the account which prevented the realization of all that I anticipated, that there are some grounds for viewing, even with satisfaction, the present resources of the country. It will be in the recollection of hon. Gentlemen that in estimating the Revenue of 1829, I took that Revenue at considerably less than the Revenue of the preceding year. A large allowance was made for the probable defalcations then anticipated, from causes which, at that time, I stated to the House, and which it therefore is not necessary

pated by an amount somewhere about 560,000l. Here I wish previouly to observe, that though the defalcation appears to be of that amount, it is in reality considerably short of it, in consequence of an appropriation of a part of the Revenue different from the appropriation intended to have been made and given in my statement. Thus, from the sale of the City Canal a sum of 130,000l. was realized, which was not applied as Revenue according to my former announcement, but was carried forward to the repayment of advances made by the Bank. In reality, that sum has been made available to the service of the country, but it does not appear under the head of Revenue. This would bring the real defalcation to somewhere about 430,000l. When the Housc comes to consider the peculiar circumstances of the country during the past year, and when hon. Members bear in mind the harvest, including all the disadvantages of the last season, thy will not be surprised that defalcations have arisen, they will not blame his Majesty's Government for what was so evidently beyond their power, they will not censure me for making an extravagant statement, which facts did not subsequently justify. Upon an examination of the financial papers, it will be seen that this defalcation arose principally in an article over which the harvest necessarily produced a very considerable effect. I estimated, last year, that the duty on the Malt, would, as compared with the year before, be deficient 600,0007.; but the deficiency turned out to be as much as 800,000l. Then the falling-off in the Beer duty amounted to 200,000l., making together 1,000,000l.; from which, if the estimated defalcation of 600,0007. be deducted, we shall have a balance of 400,000l. that being nearly the extent to which my expectations were not realized. Thus do I trust that I have succeeded in making out that one disappointment has arisen from causes which no man could have foreseen, and over which no Government could have exercised any control,

Let it not be supposed that in stating | examination of the last year and of th these deficiencies, I mean to say there are present, compared with the preceding one no others, though they are nearly balanced that the amount received on account of by an unexpected increase, but I wish the the duty on corn fluctuated between the House to be aware that the deficiency is Excise and the Customs in proportion as nearly accounted for by the failure of Re- the harvest of the year in this country venue in articles affected by the harvest. had been abundant, or the contrary; I will not conceal from the House that therefore, although this year the scanty there are other defalcations, but they do harvest has operated as a means of innot arise from causes which imply a dimi- crease to the Customs, should the harvest nished consumption. There is one arti- next year be abundant the increase will cle, at least, upon which reduced revenue be in the Excise. This being the case, implies nothing of diminished consump- though I have thought it right to state the tion-on tea there has been a defalcation amount of the increase on the corn-duty this of 130,000l., but so far from that proving year, it will be seen that I do not intend a diminished consumption, the fact is, to place any particular reliance upon it. that the consumption has increased. The But if (setting this on one side) we look House must be aware that the duty on tea at what, in the course of the last year, has is an ad valorem duty; and this article been effected by the produce of the Revehaving been sold, as is well known, at very nue, I think we shall see in it sufficient reduced prices during the last year, has circumstances to afford matter of consolacaused this deficiency in the amount of tion, if not of congratulation. On an exthe duty on tea. Comparing the produce amination of these circumstances, it will of the duty at its lowered sale with the appear, that during that period, there has produce of the duty in the year before, we been applied to the purpose of reducing find that the consumption of tea has not the Debt no less a sum than a surplus of fallen off. On other articles of the Ex- Revenue to the amount of 2,400,000l.; cise there are also deficiencies, but not to nor is that, be it understood, an imaginary a considerable amount, making the whole surplus, but a surplus actually and really deficiency (as compared with the preceding applicable to the reduction of the Debt, year) about 1,300,000l. With reference to after making every payment for the year the Customs, on which I ventured last to which the country was justly liable. I year to lay a sort of calculation before the advert to this circumstance more particuHouse, I am happy to say that I have not larly, because this being the first year been disappointed; and the deficiency of since Parliament came to the determinathe Excise has been in some degree com- tion to devote to the payment of the Debt pensated by an unexpected augmentation only the surplus revenue, I am anxious to in the amount received from the Customs. call its attention to the result of that deThe Estimate for this branch of the Reve- termination; and also because it affords nue, which I laid last year before the me an opportunity of calling the attention House, amounted to 17,000,000l., while I of the House to some other measures am happy to be able to state that the ac- which received its sanction in the course tual amount received has been 17,200,000l., of the Session before the last. This which surplus we have a right to set House, Sir, in the year 1828, gave its against the defalcation in the Excise. sanction to a measure which had for its Thus the actual deficiency of the year's object the conversion of permanent annuirevenue, as compared with the Revenue ties into annuities terminating with the of 1828, was 1,100,000l. With respect lives of the holders. When I proposed to the Customs, however, I feel it to be this measure to the House, I did it more but fair and right to state to the House in anticipation of its proving convenient to that a considerable proportion of the Reve- the public, than in the expectation of its nue in the present year (and to which the extinguishing any very large portion of the increase I have just mentioned is mainly national burthens; but, in this latter point to be attributed) is owing to the large of view, I am happy to say, that I someaugmentation under the head of duties re- what miscalculated, for I find by referring ceived upon foreign corn; and I state to certain papers now lying on the table, this the rather, because it is not my inten- that while the surplus revenue has paid off tion, in future statements, to make any al- 2,400,000l. permanent annuities to the lowance for this variation. I find, on an extent of 2,700,000l. have been con

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