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The petitioners, said Mr. Thomson, are merchants and agents connected with the trade of the East Indies, resident in London; and they state,

"That they are deeply interested in the inquiry now pending in your hon. House into the state of the Trade between Great Britain, the East Indies, and China,' as connected with

a renewal of the Charter to the East-India Company.

SLAVERY.] Mr. Jephson presented a petition from a Mr. Johnston, praying for the abolition of Slavery in the West Indies. Mr. O'Connell, in seconding the motion of his hon. friend for bringing up the petition, said, he did not think the House was taking all the steps it might for the abolition of Slavery in the West Indies. He was willing to admit that in those colonies which had no legislatures of their own, being under the immediate control of the Crown, something had been done for ameliorating the condition of the slavepopulation. Where, however, there happened, unfortunately for the poor negroes, to be a colonial legislature, the condition of those unhappy beings remained unchanged. He could not let that opportunity pass without expressing his deep abhorrence of a system which subjected one human being to the lash of another; a system repugnant alike to the best feelings of humanity, and to the dictates of sound policy.

The Petition to lie on the Table.

"That it is their opinion, from the experience obtained since the opening of the trade and subsequent acts, that the manufacturing, to the East Indies, by the 53rd of George 3rd, shipping, and commercial interests of the United Kingdom have derived very important advantages therefrom.

"That they confidently rely that, in any renewal of the Charter of the East India Company, due provision will be made to allow such free intercourse of British subjects with India, in, as shall (consistently with the security of and to give to them such right of settling therethe British Government, and the welfare of the native population) be best calculated to promote the full development of the internal resources of that country, and, by the application of British skill and capital, improve its various products, especially those of sugar, cotton, silk, and tobacco; these being the principal means by which, in the opinion of your petitioners, a further extension of the valuable trade with India, now obstructed by the difficulty of obtaining returns, may be facilitated.

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EAST INDIA COMPANY'S MONOPOLY.] Mr. Poulett Thomson said, he had to present a Petition from individuals whose wealth, influence, and respectability placed them on a footing of equality with the highest classes of their fellow-subjects, That, adverting to the fact of the Governand entitled their sentiments on all sub-ment of India having recently imposed a heavy jects, but more especially on that which and most vexatious burthen on the commerce of that country, through the operation of the was involved in their petition, to the most Stamp Regulation,' it is, in their opinion, due earnest and respectful attention of the to the commercial interests of India that the House. It related to the monopoly of the trade should be at once relieved from that East-India Company, in reference to which burthen, and protected against the imposition they held but one opinion, and that was of any tax whatever by the local government, embodied in the petition which he had the without a fair opportunity being afforded to honour to present. It was not necessary merits and provisions, and of submitting to the all parties affected thereby of canvassing its for him, on that occasion, to say any thing Government such objections as they may of his own sentiments, he would merely entertain to the measure, previously to its state the views which were taken by the acquiring the force of law. petitioners. He was gratified in having an opportunity of doing so, as it had been industriously represented that the merchants of London, who were concerned in the East India trade, had separate interests, and entertained separate opinions, quite different from those already so generally expressed by the merchants of the outports. The petition in his hand fully refuted those assertions, and proved that the London merchants made common cause with the parties to former petitions, and perfectly coincided in their sentiments with the merchants and manufacturers at the outports.

They further state, that it is their opinion, supported by the personal experience of many of them, that commercial dealings, on the part of the Government of India, whether as merchants or manufacturers, are destructive of fair competition, and are, in consequence, calculated rather to depress than excite commercial enterprise through the countries subject to their dominion. It is, therefore, most important to the mercantile prosperity of India that the government of that country should be entirely restricted from all commercial dealings, save and except, in reference to the export trade from India to Europe, it be absolutely necessary to buy produce in open market, for the purpose of remittance in aid of the territorial demands on the London treasury,

when no other means of supply can be ob- | respectably signed, praying that the East

tained."

The petitioners add, however, "That, whilst they express this opinion as to the bounds which should be set to the commercial inter

ference of the government of India, they desire to be distinctly understood not to uphold the usefulness or necessity of even such limited transactions, believing as they do, that the condition of India will, under a free and open competition of commerce, afford further proof to the experience furnished by all other countries in the world, that the work of remittance can be best performed by means of the industry, intelligence, and economy of merchants individually interested in the result of their undertakings.

"The petitioners further say, that they refrain, at this time, from making any declaration on the important question of the monopoly in the supply of tea to this country, now vested in the East-India Company, because, in their opinion, that subject is interwoven with various other considerations, besides those purely commercial, which render a full investigation indispensably necessary for establishing a fair and just decision as to the course which it may be wise to pursue in furtherance of the common interests of the country.

"But, pending the consideration which is now giving to this most important object, the petitioners say they cannot withhold the expression of their opinion that the interests of British merchants, ship-owners, and manufacturers, ought not to be any longer disregarded in relation to the commerce of China; nor the expression of their hope, that merchants of this country shall be no longer excluded from the exercise of their skill, and the employment of their capital, in a lucrative branch of the commerce of the world, open to all other nations of Europe and America, whilst the exclusion of the private merchants of the United Kingdom has, without producing any corresponding benefit to the East-India Company, had the direct effect of checking the general commerce of the country, and narrowing the consumption of its manufactures.

"These being the views," said Mr. Thomson in conclusion, "which the petitioners entertain on this important subject, they pray your honourable House will adopt such measures as may afford greater facilities for the extension of the trade with India and China, promote its general prosperity, and conduce to the improvement and welfare of the vast population of the British territories in the East.'

He had read the Petition, he then stated, at full length, in order to shew that the petitioners entertained the same opinions as the large body of merchants throughout the country, who were by their petitions calling on Parliament to do away the East-India Company's monopoly.

Mr. Huskisson stated, that he was about to present a Petition, very numerously and

renewed. The signature of every merIndia Company's charter might not be chant, every banker, and every ship-owner in Liverpool was affixed to this petition, and the petitioners were in number about 7,000. That was not the time for debating such a subject, as it could be more fitly discussed in the committee to which the petition might be referred; but he would merely observe, that exclusive privileges in these days were out of fashion. Although he did not mean to make a particular application of his remark to the scruple to affirm, that more industry would East India Company, he would not have been called into employment if monopoly had never been in existence.

General Gascoyne said, he had another Petition of the same sort to present. He hoped that when the question came to be discussed, they would not be met with capital which the Company invested in an argument founded upon the immense their concern and the business of their trade. He was afraid, however, that it would be said-What! do you propose to take away the trade with China, without enabling them to pay their debt? Such an argument might be valid if the Company had paid off any debt while it had the trade all to itself, but it happened that the debt of the Company had increased since 1813, from 7,000,000l. to 40,000,000l. He hoped also, that in the coming discussion, they should hear nothing of vested interests in the maintenhe observed, did not interfere with the ance of a monopoly. The petitioners, political management of India; all they asked for was commercial freedom. For understand upon what ground it would his own part, he was quite at a loss to be sought to continue the monopoly of the China trade. The interests of millions were not to be sacrificed for the sake of two or 3,000.

Mr. Astell rebuked the hon. and gallant officer for having indulged in some exaggerated statements. In the committee the question, he hoped, would rest only on its own merits, and be decided on the principle of justice, apart from the consideration of the relative units, whether millions or thousands, on the one side or the other, and without reference to the exaggerated statements which were every now and then made to the House. The Petition to be printed.

Mr. Huskisson presented a similar Pe- | Parliament in which the suffering party tition from the Liverpool Dock Company. was not duly represented; that when not represented, the people of this realm were deprived of their rights; that no single

RADICAL REFORM.] Mr. O'Connell said, he had two Petitions to present, pray-person ought to be allowed to nominate to ing for a Radical Reform in that House. seats in that House; that it had become He feared that the position for which the a matter of notoriety these seats were petitioners contended was likely to meet bought and sold; that there could be with but little favour in that House; but, no purity of election without election by in his opinion, and he had little hesitation ballot, and without radical reform; it in stating that opinion, the reform of the called attention to the fact, that the poor House was a debt due from Parliament to were taxed to the extent of 120 per cent, the people that was an assertion which and the luxuries of the rich only to 27 he advisedly made, and which he felt per cent. From this they inferred, that bound to sustain, as well from a deep the people were not fairly represented in conviction of its truth, as from the addi- that House; for, if they were, a principle tional reason for sustaining it, which he of greater humanity might be expected to derived from the solemn pledge upon the prevail, and the interest of the poor would subject which he had given to his consti- be more attended to. These petitioners, tuents, and which formed one of the he observed, obeyed the unconstitutional conditions upon which he had accepted law, by which a Lord-lieutenant in Irethe situation of one of their representa- land was enabled to disperse any such tives. One of the petitions which he had meeting. They accordingly did not meet; to present on this subject, was from cer- but the petition bore the signatures of two tain inhabitants of Ireland; the other thousand persons. The other petition, to emanated from a meeting held in London, which he should as briefly advert as to the where no less than 30,000 individuals former, came certainly from a meeting were present-it was a meeting at composed of not less than 30,000 indiwhich the utmost order and decorum viduals. It was voted by that meeting prevailed-it was conducted in the most unanimously voted, but it bore the sigregular and peaceable manner-he was natures of only ten, and as the petition of sure with the most loyal intentions-he those ten he knew it must be received. knew with the most perfect unanimity. The petitioners stated that, owing to the The Petition prayed for Radical Reform: existing distress, their industry had beit came from 30,000 British subjects, who come useless, and that there existed no considered that that House of Parliament prospect of relief-that they attributed ought not to be an instalment of the other the distress under which they laboured, House that the people of England ought in a great degree, to the long, bloody, and not to allow themselves to be made the disastrous wars which a venal Parliament property of an oligarchy. He had the led the Crown to carry on, especially highest respect individually for many of those against the independence of America those who commanded seats in that and the liberties of France, by which a House, but he could not shut his eyes to debt of 500,000,000l. was contracted, and the usurpation of popular privileges of an accumulation of fiscal laws and reguwhich they were guilty. The petition lations brought upon the people, which which he had to lay before them from Ire- offered to industry the most serious interland, bore two thousand signatures; and ruptions. They prayed the House to rewith the permission of the House, he store the efficacy of Magna Charta and would briefly and rapidly go through the the Bill of Rights, and to secure for the statement and prayer of that petition. It people of England those rights and privicontended, in the first place, that all per- leges which every King of England had sons under the degree of a Peer, had a sworn to maintain from Edward 1st to right to be represented in that House; George 4th. It prayed further that in any that no Peer was entitled to interfere in alteration which the House might make elections of Members to serve in that in its own constitution, it would secure to House; that it was robbery to levy taxes the people the right of voting by ballot, upon any class not duly represented there; as the most effectual means of preventing and that it would be murder to put any bribery; for the secrecy of a ballot set man to death under laws enacted by bribery and intimidation at defiance,

The two Petitions to be printed.

THE POOR OF IRELAND.] Mr. Spring Rice rose, he said, to bring forward, pursuant to notice, a Motion for the appointment of a Select Committee to take into consideration the state of the Labouring Poor of Ireland, and the best means to improve their condition. The hon. Member adverted, in the first instance, to the discussion which had taken place upon the subject last Session, when it was brought under the notice of the House by a friend of his, who was no longer a MemberMr. Villiers Stewart. Though he (Mr. S. Rice) did not fully concur in the resolution submitted on that occasion by his hon. friend, yet he was sure that if Mr. Villiers Stewart had continued a Member of that House to the present time, he would not have objected to the Motion with which he then intended to conclude, namely that a Committee be appointed to inquire into the state of the Labouring Poor in Ireland." After much regretting the absence of Mr. Villiers Stewart, and pronouncing a warm eulogium upon his character and talents, he went on to say, that though he and that gentleman essentially differed as to the means of effecting an improvement in the state of the labouring poor of Ireland, yet they were animated by the same spirit, and auxious to bring about similar results. They now came to the consideration of the state of the Irish poor, free from one of the great difficulties and impediments which had heretofore interrupted the consideration of any measures for the improvement of Ireland-he alluded to the religious dissensions which had so long distracted that country, and which were now SO happily terminated. He had understood from the noble Lord opposite, that no objection would be made to the appointment of a committee, and he should therefore have limited himself to the mere terms of his Motion, had he not been apprehensive that his views and intentions might be mistaken in Ireland; and that in that House persons might support his Motion from misunderstanding the object he meant to keep in view. He desired to entrap no votes and no support on any false views, and therefore he meant, with the permission of the House, to enter into an explanation at considerable length. The first proposition which he meant to establish was, that there existed a case for

inquiry, which no one who had paid the slightest attention to the evidence laid upon the Table of the House, upon the subject of the Irish poor, could doubt. In fact, all admitted that such a case existed. The next object, after acquiring information, was to found on the information some practical measure. If the House approached the inquiry, and came to a decision in a temper of moderation and discretion, he had no doubt that such a practical measure would be the beneficial result. It had too often happened, indeed, that measures like that he proposed had ended in nothing; but should the inquiry be determined on, he begged to assure the House that he would do all in his power that the labours of the committee should not be allowed to become a dead letter. It was the saying of an ancient sage, that Hell was paved with good intentions, and it had but too often been the practice of that House to appoint committees to examine witnesses, to make reports-most wise, and prudent, and rational-but those reports were made only to be neglected and forgotten. There was already before the House a great mass of evidence upon the subject of the people of Ireland, which he should, in the first place, beg leave to refer to the committee, and then he should wish that the committee be desired to extend the inquiry as far as might be necessary for bringing the information down to the present time. He hoped that the effect of that inquiry would be to disprove the exaggerated statements which they were every hour in the habit of hearing with respect to the state of Ireland, and the distress prevailing in that country. He did not deny the existence of distress, and very considerable distress in Ireland, but he altogther denied that the distress existed to the extent which had been stated in some quarters. It was decidedly his opinion, that the poor of Ireland were by no means in a condition of such distress, relatively to those above them, as the English poor were, though it was very much the practice to speak of the sinking and depressed condition of Ireland. He begged briefly to call the attention of the House to the exports of that country to England, and he should confine himself to a single case. Exactly a century before the time he was speaking, Sir Charles Whitworth stated-and he was considered good authority-that the exports of Ireland to Eng

land amounted annually to about 287,000l. That statement was written in the year 1729. Now the exports from a single city (Waterford) that which his right hon. friend near him represented-amounted to no less in a single year than 2,163,000l. There was reason to believe that capital was accumulating in every part of Ireland, and he believed that many of the gentlemen in that House connected with the banking concerns of Ireland could bear testimony to the improving condition of the commercial portion of the Irish people in other ways besides the exports to England. He confidently looked forward to a period of greater prosperity for Ireland than ever she had before experienced. Already he was able to trace a great improvement in the condition of the people, of which he would mention an example. In 1827 the number of persons admitted into the fever hospital at Limerick was 2,780; in 1828 it was 2,920; while, in 1829, it was fortunately diminished to 692. As disease and poverty generally went hand in hand, he did not know that he could quote a stronger proof of the improved condition of the people, and that the distress, though it was very severe, was not last year equal to former years. The hon. Gentleman then briefly adverted to the condition of the labouring poor in Killarney, among whom, he said, the Earl of Kenmare expended 5,000l. annually, finding them employment; to the numbers living by mendicity in Bandon, who, he said, were 2,590; in Cork, where many were in a state of destitution; and in Dublin, where 7,000 persons lived on alms; and then he proceeded to show the improving condition of the country from the criminal returns. The population, he observed, was rapidly augmenting, and crime, so far from increasing, had considerably diminished of late years. In 1823 the commitments were 15,000; in 1828, 14,600-showing a difference of 400 for the whole island. The progress of crime had been advancing in England in 1828, as the right hon. Secretary opposite knew; while in Ireland the contrary was the case. In that country, in 1823, the executions were 61; 1827, 37; 1828, 21. In 1823 those convicted of seditious practices amounted to 121; 1825, 9; 1827, they had fallen to nothing, and in 1828, they were 3 only. Thus it would be seen that the condition of Ireland had, in more ways than one, been materially ameliorated; but antecedently

to any measure of legislation with a view to its further improvement, it would be necessary that the House should have its actual condition before them, and that brought down to the latest period. In moving for a committee at that early period of the Session, there was every reasonable prospect that its labours might be brought to a close time enough to admit of practical results. The next subject to which he would direct the attention of the House was, the charge brought against the Irish gentry and middle classes that they showed no disposition to relieve the wants and necessities of their poorer fellow-countrymen. National reflections might be easily made, but they should not be made lightly. What were the facts of the case? Was Ireland without its charitable institutions? Far from it: no country under Heaven, he would venture to say, maintained, as compared with its means, more munificent asylums for the sick and destitute than Ireland. Let the House look to the asylums for the insane, and they would see none of the great towns without one, and none of the provinces, except Connaught, (in which, however, there was one about to be erected,) and those were chiefly supported by voluntary contribution. Then every county in Ireland had its county hospital, except Waterford, which had an institution under another name, but for the same purpose. The Lunatic Asylums for the poor, he said, were more generously endowed, and exceeded in magnitude those of any other country. There were also fever hospitals and county hospitals, which relieved 8,000 patients, and were provided for at the expense of 54,000l. a year; and there were other public institutions in each of the four provinces. Of the sum expended on county hospitals, 54,000l. a year, only 2,6007. was provided by Parliament, and the remainder was contributed by the charity of Ireland. He would next advert to the fever hospitals, which were established all over the country, and all of which, except the one at Dublin, were supported by local funds, and without costing the Government any thing. At all these hospitals, amounting in number to 271, cases of fever were treated with as great liberality, and with as great success, as in any hospitals of this country. There were also Dispensaries for the relief of sick persons, to the amount of 400, supported by private subscription; and at

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