States of America, exceeded all the trade carried on with those States by the shipping of all the rest of the world put together. The ultimate effect of the system, he believed, would be of great advantage to this country. Lord Ellenborough said, that he had at first much the same view of the reciprocity Treaties as the noble Earl opposite. But he found from the Return that British shipping had gone on regularly increasing, and it was with great satisfaction that he felt himself bound to declare that he now thought he had been mistaken in his first impressions. He was not aware that the subject was to be discussed, or he should have come prepared with documents to justify his change of opinion. Earl Stanhope said, that the Returns to which noble Lords alluded, included all steam-boats employed as passage vessels; and he was yet to learn that either the wealth or the naval power of the country was increased by the visits of the Londoners to Margate. His question was, whether we were carrying on a profitable or an unprofitable trade; and he contended that our trade was unprofitable. To say that it was not, because it was not altogether given up, was like saying that there was no agricultural distress because the farmers had not abandoned their farms. It was a plain matter of arithmetic that the English ship-owners could not compete with foreigners who built and navigated their vessels at half the expense of the English ship-owner. He wished to have an inquiry into this subject, for if the information which reached him were correct, he believed that our ship-owners were keeping their ships afloat at a great loss. stance. But the fact was, that the British | shipping had of late years gone on progressively increasing, and 400 more British vessels had passed the Sound last year than in any former year. All those Treaties, however, were in some measure matters of experiment, and therefore they were to be in force for a limited time; and in the present Treaty the duration was limited so that it would expire at the same time with the rest, and then Parliament would have the whole subject brought under its consideration. He found this Treaty advanced to a certain extent when he came into office, and the faith of the country was then in some degree pledged. Viscount Goderich did not think it necessary to enter upon the discussion of the subject at length, on the present occasion, as his noble friend had intimated that the whole matter would be, at a future period, brought under the consideration of Parliament. But he had some time ago moved for certain Returns, from which it appeared that since this reciprocity system was adopted, the British shipping had gone on in a constant progressive course of increase, as compared with the shipping of all the rest of the world, except Norway. which owing to particular circumstances in its situation had increased its shipping faster than England. In particular it had been predicted that British shipping would be sacrificed to Prussian shipping; but the fact was, that the British shipping almost to the exclusion of Prussian shipping, monopolized the trade between the two countries. The Returns he had previously moved for, ended with the year 1828; but he had little doubt that the increase had gone on in the course of the last year. Some spoke of these Treaties as if they were merely speculative schemes resorted SUPPLY OF THE PRECIOUS METALS.] to by Ministers without any kind of neces- The Marquis of Lansdown rose, pursity. But that was far from being the case; suant to his notice of yesterday, to move for, as we had levied very high duties on an Address to his Majesty, praying that the shipping of foreign states, they retali- he would instruct the Consuls to the difated by imposing very heavy duties on ferent States of South-America to make ours, and in that way we were sure to have inquiries into the state of the South Amethe worst of it. The adoption of this rican Gold and Silver Mines, and to reciprocal system was therefore a matter transmit to this country all the informaof necessity. If it had not been adopted, tion on the subject which they might be there could scarcely be a doubt but that able to collect. His wish was to prothe situation of this country would have cure, as far as possible, accurate informabeen much worse than it actually was. tion concerning the supply of the precious By its means the British shipping had been metals. He did not anticipate any objecenabled to compete with the shipping of tion to his Motion, and it would not, all the world. At present the trade carried therefore, be necessary for him to trouble on by British shipping with the United | their Lordships with any lengthened re He Address to his Majesty, involving the several matters which he had mentioned in his speech. The Earl of Aberdeen saw no objection to the Address proposed by the noble Marquis. The truth was, that the Consuls had already been acting on instructions of a somewhat similar kind; but perhaps it might be of advantage that their attention should be directed more specifically to the points mentioned by the noble Marquis. Lord Ellenborough doubted whether the Motion of the noble Marquis would answer the purpose which he himself had in view. It appeared to him that it would be requisite not only to know what was the amount of produce of the American mines, but also to know whither it went. Within eighteen years no no less than 45,000,000l. of the precious metals had been imported into the East Indies. The Marquis of Lansdown said, that there was a constant flux and reflux to and from India, so that it was scarcely possible to trace where the produce went. There could be no doubt that the increase of civilization, population, and taste for elegant luxuries, had occasioned a much greater expenditure of the precious metals in latter times than formerly. The chief fact however was to ascertain the produce. marks on the subject at present. wished, however, to observe, that nobody would be pledged, by agreeing to this Motion, as to any future course of proceeding. But in case any thing should happen which would render it necessary to depart from that sound metallic standard of currency which was now happily established, it would be most material for their Lordships to know the state of the South American Mines, which were the great sources of the supply of the precious metals. It would be difficult, perhaps, to procure a very accurate account of the degree of productiveness of the mines at present; but of one thing there could be no doubt whatever, and that was, that the changes and revolutions which had taken place among these States had a powerful effect in diminishing the produce of the mines. At the same time it might be that the effect which he had mentioned had been in some measure counteracted by the use of extra capital, and by scientific improvements in the mining process. The general result of the whole might be a great variation in the relative quantities of gold and silver produced, and it would be most material for their Lordships to know how matters stood in that respect. Another material consideration was, that gold had been now found in the Russian dominions, and was raised The Earl of Malmesbury had no obin considerable quantities, and therefore jection to the Address, but he wished to he would propose that our Consul at St. make an observation on the subject of Petersburgh should be instructed to pro- the great expense occasioned to the pubcure all possible information as to the pro-lic by the salaries of these consuls. He ductiveness of the Russian Mines, and to had paid some attention to the subject, send home a report on that subject. He and he found that the expense amounted would also add to the Address a prayer to 97,000l. Till the year 1825, a great that his Majesty would be pleased to portion of the allowances to the consuls order to be laid on their Lordships' Table was made in the shape of fees paid by the a copy of the evidence given by certain merchants who had occasion for their distinguished merchants before the Privy services. But an outcry rose against that Council in 1828, as to the standard of plan, and in 1825 the fees were abolished, gold and silver. In order to throw fur- and the expedient adopted of a salary ther light on the subject, he would pro- paid out of the public purse; and of the pose, that his Majesty might be requested 97,000l., 70,000l., he believed, consisted to direct an account to be laid on the of salaries substituted for the fees. Now Table of the amount of freight paid to the system of fees was certainly liable to the captains of ships of war and Govern- great abuses, but still he thought that under ment packets for the carriage of the pre- proper regulations it ought to have been cious metals during each year, for some continued. It was very fitting that part years past. These were all the matters at least of the allowances to the conthat occurred to him at present, but he suls ought to be paid by those who more had no doubt that the effect of the Ad- immediately profited by their services, dress would be, to bring some valuable in- and it appeared hardly just to throw the formation before their Lordships. The whole expenses on the public. He hoped noble Marquis concluded by moving an the matter would be taken into considera The Earl of Aberdeen said, the consuls to Egypt were appointed by the Foreign Office-those for the Barbary States by the Colonial Office. Lord Holland saw no reason why the whole of these appointments should not vest in the Foreign Office. The Earl of Malmesbury said, that he did not wish the consuls to be wholly dependent on fees. He would give them a salary, more particularly as they were liable to be called on to perform services like that to which the present Motion related. Motion agreed to. HOUSE OF COMMONS. MINUTES.] Mr. FRANKLAND LEWIS brought in a Bill to con The Earl of Aberdeen said, that he had been paying some attention to the subject, and he believed that he should, at no distant period, be able to submit a proposal to the House about this matter. But it would never answer to make the whole of the allowances to the consuls consist of fees; for if at any long period of a year the commerce of their stations should be suspended, the consuls might be reduced to great distress if they had The Fever Hospitals (Ireland) Bill was read a second time on nothing to look to but the fees. But in 1825, the old system had been very much objected to, and the fees had been abolished. But whether the change had been advantageous might be doubted; and perhaps the best plan might be to make the allowances payable partly in salary and partly in fees, guarding as much as possible against abuses. hoped to bring forward a plan to diminish the expense. As to these South Ameri He can States, almost the whole of our relations with them was of a commercial nature; but in every case where a minister was sent out, the office of consul-general was made to cease. The Earl of Malmesbury expressed his satisfaction at the explanation given by his noble friend. Viscount Goderich said, that in 1825 great objection was made to the system of fees in the other House, and by merchants out of doors, and the consequence was the abolition of the fee system. Great caution ought, he considered, to be observed in the appointment of vice-consuls, and they certainly should not be merchants-this was more peculiarly necessary in a country wherein our relations were rather commercial than diplomatic. The Earl of Aberdeen was unwilling then to enter into any further particulars, the more especially as the matter arose incidentally. Lord Holland asked if the consuls sent to the north of Africa were appointed by the Colonial or the Foreign Office. the Motion of Lord FRANCIS LEVESON GOWER. Returns laid on the Table. Accounts of all sums received by the Corporation of the Trinity House from the Thames Pilots, with their names:-Account of the Fee Fund of the Court of Session (Scotland). The number of persons charged with Criminal Offences, pursuant to an Address of March 29th. Returns ordered. On the Motion of Mr. F. LEWIS, an account of the Imports and Exports of Wool, since the passing of the Act allowing such Exports:-of the number of packs of Playing Cards charged with duty in 1827 and 1829: On the Motion of Mr. HOLDSWORTH, of the quan tity of Coals carried Coast-wise into the several Counties of England and Wales distinguishing the quantity imported into each County; and the amount of Duty for 1829; also the amount of Drawbacks, if any paid for Coals consumed in the Mines:-On the Motion of Mr, MANNING, an Account of the Nett Amount of the Duties of Custorns on Merchandise of all kinds imported since January 5th, 1820, distinguishing the Amount of each year; of the gross Amount of Duties of Customas charged on Sugar imported from the Mauritius and the West Indies for the same period, with the Amount of Drawback, also the Nett Amount of the same Duties for the same period:-On the Motion of Sir CHARLES WETHERELL, of the Number of Causes set down on the Lord Chancellor's Paper and remaining unheard, specifying the time of setting them down; also the same on the Vice-Chancellor's Paper, and on the Master of the Rolls' Paper. Petitions Presented. Against the Renewal of the East India Company's Charter:-By Mr. DOUNIR, from Guild of Merchants, Stirling:-By Mr. LITTLETON, from Lane End and Lane Delph:-And by Mr. ADAM STAY from Linlithgow:--By Mr. ARCHIBALD CAMPBELL, from the Inhabitants of the Gorbals. For the abolition of the Practice of Women burning themselves in Hindostan-By General GASCOYNE, from various Congregations of Protestant Dissenters in Liverpool. For an Amelioration of the Criminal Code By Mr. LITTLETON, from West Bromwich: -By Mr. FYLER, from Coventry :-by Mr. LEGGE, from Banbury, :-By Mr. MUNDY, from the Merchants and Bankers of the town of Derby. For a Duty on the Importation of Foreign Lead- by Mr. WILLIAM DUNCOMBE, from the Proprietors of Lead Mines in Nedderdale. For the Repeal of the Duty on Tobacco, by Lord F. OSBORNE, from JOSEPH Cox. By Mr. LITTLETON, from Tipton, against the Truck System. Against throwing open the Trade in Beer-By Mr. LITTLETON, from the Licensed Victuallers of the Staffordshire Potteries:-By Sir CHARLES HASTINGS, from the Licensed Victuallers of Leicester:-By Mr. FYLER, from the Licensed Victuallers of Coventry. This Petition was signed by 200 Publicans, Sugar Duties. He had already stated, that it was his intention to move for a re only seven of whom were under the control of Brewers: -By Mr. MALCOLM, from the Publicans' of Boston; and by Mr. BENETT from the Licensed Victuallers of duction of those duties, and he wished to Trowbridge, ask his right hon. friend at what period he meant to introduce his annual bill en the Sugar Duties, as it would be convenient if he were to make his proposition when that bill was discussed. He had no other objection to deferring his own motion till so late a period but the fear that it would be then too late to discuss it. He hoped, however, that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would bring forward his bill earlier than usual, in order that the subject might be fully and fairly discussed. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, he was ready to do all in his power to bring the subject of the Sugar Duties before the House as early after Easter as possible. The state of the public business might be such as to prevent him bringing it on very early; but he would, as soon after Easter as possible, inform his right hon. friend when he should bring in the bill. DISTRESS AND CRIME.] Mr. Hume, in presenting a Petition from the inhabitants of North Nibley, complaining of great Distress, and praying relief; stating that of 1600 persons, 800 were receiving relief, observed, that it was impossible to doubt the existence of great and overwhelming distress when such facts were continually brought before the House. The petitioners justly observed, that whether their distress was caused by legislative measures or not, there could be no doubt that it was greatly aggravated by taxation. He believed that nothing but a reduction of taxation, and the abolition of the Corn-laws, and all other monopolies would give the people relief. The evil consequences of those laws were every day becoming more apparent, and they could not possibly be preserved. In looking at the papers on the Table, it was impossible to avoid concluding, that the DUTIES ON COALS.] Sir John Newgreat increase of crime they unfortunately port presented a Petition from certain Inproved was chiefly to be attributed to habitants of Dublin, complaining of the taxation. In each of the five years end-duty on Coals as an infringement on the ing with 1809, the number of persons committed for trial was, on an average, 4,692; between 1820 and 1824, that number was increased to 13,005; in 1825, the number was 14,437 : it had progressively increased every subsequent year, and in 1829 was no less than 18,675, being upwards of 6,000 more in 1829 than in 1823, or an increase of 50 per cent in six years. He found, on looking over these accounts, that not more than one individual sentenced to death out of three was executed, and that thirty out of 100 of those committed were acquitted. In Scotland he believed the persons acquitted did not bear a larger proportion to those committed than one in ten. That might be the consequence of the different methods of administering the law in the two countries but there could be no doubt, that the great increase of distress was the cause of the vast increase in petty larcenies which these returns shewed. Petition read, and laid on the Table. SUGAR DUTIES.] Mr. C. Grant wished, as he saw his right hon. friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in his place, to call his attention to the subject of the Act of Union, and praying that it might be repealed. The right hon. Baronet supported the prayer of the Petition, and confirmed the petitioners' statement that the tax was an infringement of the Act of Union. When Mr. Orde's proposition was submitted to the Irish Parliament in 1785, some duty of this kind was contemplated, but at the time of the Union it was distinctly held out to Ireland that she should receive as a boon and as an encouragement to her manufactures, coals duty free; while England was still to suffer under the tax now laid on coals carried coast-wise. That promise might be found in one of Lord Castlereagh's published speeches. He lamented, however, to say that the infant manufactures of Ireland had never been relieved from this burthen. After a period of thirty years, for so long a time had elapsed since the Union, he found this duty preserved, and as the Duke of Wellington said, must be preserved he was at a loss, however, to know on what grounds, since it would be preserved by violating the pledged faith of the Government. If the Legislature were not disposed to cherish the Irish manufacturer by its favour, it ought at least : not to impede their progress by injustice. | and management of the Crown-lands, Petitition read and to be printed. and he wished that every Member were obliged, before he began a speech, to state CROWN LANDS.] Mr. D. W. Harvey, what he meant to propose, or what he in rising to redeem the pledge he had meant to contravene. That would save a given at the close of the last Session, to great deal of time and facilitate business. bring under the notice of the House the So little was known of the Crown-lands, present state and management of the that if the Members of that House were to Crown Lands, expressed his regret that conjecture what was the value of those it had not fallen into the hands of some lands, some would say half a million a more distinguished Member, who might year, while others would rate them at relieve the dryness of the subject by adorn- 50,000l. If they were to suppose them ing it with the graces of eloquence. His sold, some of them would say that they regret was somewhat lessened by having would fetch 500,000l., and others might observed that the greatest talents had of estimate the sum at 20,000,0007. Was late led men into the greatest inconsisten- that a condition in which property should cies, and that, at present, ordinary minds, be allowed to remain, those who had to acting under honest impressions, might be dispose of it knowing nothing of its value. of the most substantial advantage to the The reason of this ignorance he believed country. He only claimed to be one of was, that the Crown-lands were held sathis class; be pretended to none of the ad- cred, and were interdicted from investivantages of learning, and could claim gation; but in fact, there was no branch none of the support which faction or party of the public revenue which was more sometimes lent to individuals. He preentirely available to the service of the sented himself to the House as a repre- country, and none which had been bought sentative of the people, to bring under its at a more enormous price than what was notice a source of the national revenue called the Crown-lands. He meant to which had been greatly perverted, and re- state the origin of this property, the flucquired to be judiciously applied to be tuations it had undergone from the commade available to the public service. mencement, and he should conclude by There was scarcely a part of either our pointing out the use it might be of to domestic or foreign policy which had been the country, not from what it did, but less inquired into; for, with the exception from what it might be made to produce. of one examination under the authority of He would show how it had been managed, a committee, in 1786-with the exception or rather mismanaged, disposed of for of that solitary examination, the subject slight considerations or rather no considerhad not been inquired into by the House ation at all, let for trifling rents and resince 1705, shortly after the accession of let at enormous profits, in short he would Queen Anne. It could not be said, there- shew that it had been managed so as no fore, that this was one of those subjects private property was ever managed in the which had grown tedious by repetition. world. There never was a large public He did not regret that circumstances had property so entirely diverted from public deferred his Motion, as it had given time uses. The House were called on as to display a glimmering of anxiety on the trustees of the public to interfere, and part of his Majesty's Ministers, if not to see that the property was made available promote reform themselves, at least not to to the public. In the early periods of check those who were reformers. He European history, every monarch of was glad to see that they had recognised Europe had no other revenue, whether it public opinion, and he neither would damp were intended to keep up the magnificence the hopes nor falsify the pretensions which of his court, or maintain the tranquillity of had been raised by their late reductions. his dominions, or protect them from foThe right hon. the Member for Liver-reign invasion, than that which was depool had stated the other night, much to his satisfaction, that one source to which we might look for the improvement of our revenue was the Crown-lands. He wished at the outset to state, that the object of his Motion was to move for a committee to inquire into the present state rived exclusively from the soil. When the illegitimate Norman overthrew the legitimate Harold, the revenues from the land which came into his possession amounted to 400,000l. a-year. This revenue was the exclusive source of all the means possessed by him and his successors to pro |