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the business. He thought they might with equal | the certainty and increase of the revenue had propriety interpose their offices to prevent the served to enhance the value of the public seuse of many other articles which were deemed curities, of which it is well known they hold a pernicious or of a poisonous quality. He in- very considerable portion. stanced mushrooms; they might petition Congress to pass a law interdicting the use of catsup, because some ignorant persons had been poisoned by eating mushrooms.

Mr. J. then gave a short sketch of the history of excises in England. He said they always had been considered by the people of that country as an odious tax, from the time of Oliver Cromwell to the present day; even Blackstone, a high prerogative lawyer, has reprobated them. He said, he hoped this country would take warning by the experience of the people of Great Britain, and not sacrifice their liberties by wantonly contracting debts which would render it necessary to burden the people by such taxes as would swallow up their privileges. We are, said he, too much in the habit of imitating that country; and I plainly perceive that the time will come when a shirt shall not be washed without an excise. He then expatiated on the unequal operation of excises, and instanced the experience of this State. A few counties, said he, approximate to the capital, have borne the weight of the whole, while the distant parts of the State did not feel the burden; and, by an indication of several particulars, he showed its unequal operation in the Southern States. It will deprive the mass of the people of almost the only luxury they enjoy, that of distilled spirits. He did not see the necessity of passing this law the present session. The amount of the produce of the duties laid last session is not yet known, nor is it yet ascertained whether the citizens will subscribe to the assumption. Let us not lay a tax for a purpose which may never exist; for my part, I hope they never will subscribe. He then adverted to the excess of duties already iaid, and the probability of a great increase of that excess; and urged the propriety of waiting at least another quarter to see what that excess may amount to. These observations he enforced by recurring to the recent transactions of the States of Maryland, Virginia, and North Carolina; and he expected to hear very shortly that the Assembly of Georgia had expressed similar opinions with the latter States on the business of the assumption. He concluded by expressing a general disapprobation of the various parts of the bill.

Mr. PARKER said, he had seconded the motion of the gentleman from Georgia, not because he was more averse to this particular clause than to the subsequent parts of the bill. He exceedingly disliked the several provisions contained in it. He then adverted to the general process of the revenue business the last session; and observing on the conduct of the mercantile interest, to which so much credit had been given, said, he thought they were not entitled to the liberal encomiums which had been bestowed on them for their promptitude in paying the duties, as

He then touched on the subsequent parts of the bill, which he reprobated as hostile to the liberties of the people, as contrary to the general sentiment; not only as partial and unequal in the mode of assessment, but particularly on account of the mode of collecting the tax. It will, said he, convulse the Government; it will let loose a swarm of harpies, who, under the denomination of revenue officers, will range through the country, prying into every man's house and affairs, and like a Macedonian phalanx bear down all before them. And though the Government has proceeded with a degree of prosperity and success beyond the most sanguine expectations, yet he very much doubted the policy of trying its strength by an experiment of this nature.

Recurring to the actual and probable produce of the duties already laid, he attempted to show that the additional sum of upwards of eight hundred thousand dollars, contemplated to be raised by this bill, is not necessary. He controverted the policy of the measure, and contended that it would, in all probability, rather diminish than increase the revenue of the United States. For the mercantile part of the community, who have been applauded for acting so honorably in making their entries, and paying the impost, will find it for their interest to alter their conduct; they will combine to defeat the excise, which will in its operations bear so unequally on them.

He objected very particularly to the bill on account of its tendency to promote smuggling. Mr. P. said, no man was more heartily disposed than he was to give his approbation to every just measure for supporting the public credit, and doing every thing in his power to support the constitutional operations of the Government; but this mode of raising a revenue he considered as particularly odious to the people; and at the present moment he was not satisfied that such an increase to the public burdens is necessary.

Mr. STONE said, he had no objection to the design of the bill so far as additional revenue was necessary; but the mode of raising it by excise he exceedingly disliked. He had no doubt that other means might be devised; but at present he thought the committee was not sufficiently informed respecting the actual and probable amount of the revenue from the duties already imposed, to determine the necessity of an addition to the revenue. He therefore moved that the committee should rise without any further discussion of the bill at this time, and that a select committee should be appointed to make the necessary previous inquiries upon the subject, and report to the House.

Mr. FITZSIMONS observed that there was already on the table a statement from the proper officers of the product of the revenue, from September, 1789, to September, 1790.

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This statement was read.

Duties on Spirits.

The motion for the committee's rising was put and lost.

The question on Mr. JACKSON's motion for striking out the clause was put, and negatived by a great majority.

THURSDAY, January 6.

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The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the bill repealing after the last day of next, the act laying duties on distilled spirits, &c., and imposing others in their stead. Mr. BOUDINOT in the chair.

The twelfth section, which specifies the rates of duties, being read,

[JANUARY, 1791.

table; he instanced a tax on salaries, pensions, and lawyers, and in these particulars, he wished that the example of Great Britain might be followed.

He then dilated on the practice of smuggling, which he contended would be promoted by this bill; also the difficulties and opposition which were justly to be expected, by which the dignity of the Government would be insulted. Can this Government, said he, protect its officers from the resentment of any one State in the Union? He reprobated the idea of placing the Government in such a situation.

Mr. LAWRENCE observed, that he doubted not every gentleman's mind was open to conviction, and he hoped and expected that every question would be treated dispassionately. He did not Mr. PARKER moved that it should be struck rise yesterday to answer the gentleman, because out, in order to admit a substitute which should he was not impressed with the force of his arprovide for a different mode of raising the re-guments in the manner the gentleman supposed quisite additional revenue; the proposition he had in view, he said, was a duty on molasses. This, he observed, would answer every purpose, without being liable to the objections which had been offered against the plan of the bill.

the House was. He then adverted to the act of the last session, by which the debts of the particular States were assumed. Having taken this debt upon ourselves, the consequence is obvious, nor can we ever get over the dishonor of Mr. MADISON observed, that he had felt the not making the necessary provision for paying force of the objections which had been urged it. He then adverted to the statements which against the bill. He was in general principled had been submitted to the House by the officer against excises, but of all excises, that on ardent to whom the Union had intrusted the direction spirits he considered the least exceptionable. | of its finances. From these it fully appeared that The question now to be determined, he con- a much greater deficiency in the revenue existceived, was this-is an addition to the presented than some gentlemen appeared willing to amount of the revenue necessary? It had ap- allow. If this deficiency exists, and if the peared that an addition is necessary; for his United States are bound to make provision for own part, he should prefer direct taxation to the debts they have assumed to pay, the duties any excises whatever; but he conceived this contemplated by the bill appear the most obviwould be contrary to the sentiments of a ma- ous for the Government to recur to. He adjority of the people of the United States; and verted to the idea of direct taxation, and inquired, he was fully convinced that it was contrary to on what principle will gentlemen consent to this the opinion of a great majority of the House. mode of raising the necessary supplies? Will If, said he, any mode could be adopted, without they make the representation of the several having recourse to excises, he would be the last States the rule by which it shall be apportioned? that would give them support; but he conceived He doubted whether direct taxes on this printhere was none, and the plan proposed was ciple would be agreeable, even to the gentlemen divested of the most exceptionable provisions who have mentioned them. He then remarked usually connected with an excise system. on the objections to an excise, on account of the mode of collection. He said a rigorous collection would bear hard only on the dishonest, while it would protect the fair trader from bearing an undue proportion of the public burdens.

Mr. JACKSON observed, that his defeat yesterday should not deter him, while he had a monitor within, from rising in his place to do his duty, in opposition to a system unfriendly to the liberties of the people. He said, he was not the first on this floor who had been outvoted by silent majorities; gentlemen of superior abilities had met with similar treatment. He, however, felt so much respect for himself as to suppose that this silence proceeded from an inability to answer the arguments which he had the honor to offer against what he considered a most ruinous and mischievous system of taxation.

He then stated certain particulars respecting the produce of the revenue, to show that so great a sum as is proposed to be raised by excise is unnecessary,

He doubted not other resources of revenue might be explored which would be more pala

He observed on the uneasiness which is said to prevail in some of the States; and to obviate the force of these reflections he instanced the harmony and peace that prevailed in those States which bear a much greater proportion of the public burdens than those which complain, as was abundantly evident from the documents in possession of the House.

Mr. STEELE stated his objections at large to an excise; he adverted to the particular situation of affairs in some of the Southern States, especially North Carolina. The Assembly of that State had rejected the proposal of taking an oath to support the Constitution of the United States, with scorn; they had also refused to admit Continental prisoners into their jails; and

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another circumstance more hostile to the Gen- | then adverted to direct taxation; and by a vaeral Government than either of the foregoing riety of particulars, showed that it was utterly had taken place, which he forbore to mention. impossible to lay a direct tax that would not He said such was the present state of the pub- prove unjust, unequal, and grievously oppressive. lic mind, in various parts of the Union, that he Mr. BLOODWORTH spoke against the bill. He should dread taking any measures which might dilated largely on the present uneasiness which serve to increase the fermentation which the prevailed in the State of North Carolina. His people are in. An excise he considered of this experience, he said, was directly contrary to that nature; it would in its operations produce the of the gentleman from New Hampshire; the worst consequences. A more exceptionable people to the southward universally condemned mode of taxation he conceived could not be de- an excise. vised. A direct or poll tax, he supposed, would not be so odious; and though, for his own part, he should prefer an excise to either of the former taxes, yet such was the aversion of the people to it, that he should prefer almost any other alternative. He thought other objects might be found from which the necessary revenue could be raised. He instanced duties on inland navigation, law proceedings, legal convey-prevent its being attended with those qualities ances, &c.

He then adverted to the operation of an excise, especially in the State of North Carolina, and said that the consumption of ardent spirits in that State was so great that the duty would amount perhaps to ten times as much as in the State of Connecticut. On the whole, he hoped, if the section is not struck out, that the excise will be reduced.

Mr. SHERMAN observed, that the subject now before the committee was thoroughly discussed the last session; and as nothing new or of weight or importance had been offered the present session against it, he thought it would be a useless waste of the time of the House to go into a particular reply to the objections offered against the bill. This he thought a sufficient answer to the charge of carrying questions by silent majorities.

He then entered into a short consideration of the subject generally, and defended the system from the charges which had been adduced specting its unequal operation.

Mr. SEDGWICK said, he was unhappy to hear that discontents prevailed in any part of the United States. He could assure gentlemen that he did not contemplate the execution of the laws by military force. He was sure that in no part of the Legislature were entertained designs inimical to the public liberty. In framing the present bill, great attention had been paid to

which, in other countries, rendered taxation by excise justly obnoxious to popular resentment. He relied on the good sense and wellinformed understandings of the people in every part of America, for the execution of such systems for the support of public credit, and for the diminution of the national debt, as should be devised by the wisdom of their Representatives. For the same purposes, he said, he confided in the patriotism of the gentlemen who came from those districts of country where uneasiness was said to exist. He believed there was indeed considerable deficiency to be provided for, for the support of Government and of the public credit. This belief was founded in his confidence in the information received from the Secretary of the Treasury. But if there was no deficiency, his disposition to support the bill would be the same; for he had never believed that a public debt was a public benefit. Is it not, then, the duty of those to whom the peore-ple have delegated the important trust of guarding their prosperity, in a season of profound Mr. LIVERMORE was in favor of the bill. He peace, to liberate them from the burden and said he considered it as an equal and just mode pressure of debt? Therefore the only question of taxation; and, as such, will be agreeable to to be determined is, whether the proposed duties the people they will consider it as drinking are a proper source from whence we might dedown the national debt. So far, said he, as my rive the necessary aids to provide for the payobservations have extended, I have not found a ment of the interest, or the diminution of the single individual who has objected to it. He principal of our debt? He believed that of all then obviated the objections to the bill, which the subjects of revenue which were within the he conceived arose principally from the word power of Congress, none was so proper as the excise. He thought the term very improperly duty on ardent spirits, contemplated by the bill. applied on the present occasion, for the duty In this sentiment, he believed he concurred with cannot be said to be an excise. He then gave that of the great body of the people. The sea description of what had been considered in veral species of taxation may be divided into times past as an excise, which, to be sure, is a the four following: by impost; a tax on internal very unequal tax, inasmuch as it fell on the poor negotiations; direct taxes; and that now under only, who were obliged to purchase in small consideration, excise. The impost duties had quantities; while the rich, by storing their cel- been extended as far as was, in the opinion of lars, escaped the duty. But this bill provides any gentleman, dictated by sound policy. The that the duty shall fall equally on the rich and tax on internal negotiations, which could not be poor. It is to be paid, or secured, by the im- carried on to any considerable extent without porter of foreign spirits, and on the still-head the intervention of stamps, was subject to on domestic spirits. This will equalize the the objection brought against the present bill, burden, and leave no room for complaint. He and that in a degree incomparably beyond it,

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of being opposed by public opinion. Direct taxes are still more objectionable on that account, at least in every part of the country to which his knowledge extended. They are of all taxes the most unequal, and in this country would be found the most oppressive. They are unequal, because with whatever exactness they might be apportioned upon capital or income, the only two principles on which an apportionment can be made, they may, and will be, very unequal as to the burden imposed; because a man's ability to pay taxes is not in proportion either to his capital, his property, or his income, but to that part of his income which is over and above his necessary expenses, according to the usual manner of living for persons of his degree in the community. They will be oppressive in this country, because in many of the States the plentiful circulation of money, and the facility of obtaining it, does not extend to the interior parts, nor could it be obtained by many of our citizens without a great sacrifice of property. It may be added, that from the extent of our settlements compared with the number of our citizens, the expense of collection would be immense.

(JANUARY, 1791. secured by this bill, and other provisions friendly to personal rights are added.

Direct taxes are as much objected to by North Carolina as the excise; and though direct taxes are mentioned, no plan is offered.

He then enlarged on the importance of punctuality in paying the interest of the public debt, and of having a surplus revenue in the Treasury. He doubted not the gentlemen in favor of the bill were as patriotic as those who are averse to it. Difference of opinion is to be expected; but he had a better opinion of the good sense of the community than to suppose they would be led away by a sound; they will see and judge for themselves; and when they see that the law is free from all those obnoxious qualities which have been suggested, they will submit to it without complaint, especially when they realize that the tax is equal, and the only effective resource within the present command of the Government. The General Government is authorized to lay excises-North Carolina knew this when she adopted the constitution. The opposition, he suspected, was against the object to which the money is to be appropriated.

Mr. GILES said, the sentiments of the people In regard to excises, Mr. S. said, that in all in- of the Southern States have been so differently sensible modes of taxation, it should be observ-represented from what he conceived to be the ed, that a much greater sum would be obtained from an individual than by any mode of direct imposition: this, without entering into a discussion of the reasons upon which it was found-men. ed, is demonstrated by fact. He instanced the porters of London, from whom, in the single article of beer, was drawn ten times as much as could be procured by the most rigorous mode of direct taxation. With regard to the proposed duties, though the well-meant consideration of morality which had been urged by some gentlemen weighed but little with him, because he doubted whether it was well founded, yet, if the consumption should be lessened, he did not believe it would be attended with any sensible inconvenience. The consumption, at present, amounts to an enormous quantity; from these considerations, as the measure is dictated by sound policy, he hoped and believed it would be supported by a good degree of unanimity.

Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina) adverted to the funding system, to show that the faith of the United States was pledged to raise a sufficient revenue to discharge the debt, which, by that system, they have engaged to pay. The Secretary's statements point out a deficiency; those statements, he had no doubt, were as accurate as the nature of things would admit. Gentlemen who find fault with the proposed plan do not offer a substitute. He then entered into a defence of the bill, and showed in what respects it differed from the English plan of an excise.

He said, the present bill was not so exceptionable on account of its violating private property as the collection law.

He instanced, in a particular clause of that law, the power of entering houses by warrant from a justice of the peace-trial by jury is

state of facts, that, in justice to them he conceived himself bound to take some notice of the observations which had fallen from gentleHe then stated certain principles on which taxation should be formed. Taxes should be necessary, and raised on a plan consistent with the principles of liberty. He adverted to the necessity, which, he observed, was abundantly apparent from the report of the Secretary of the Treasury; but he did not confine his opinion to what had fallen from him. He instanced other reasons which would occasion a necessity for replenishing the public Treasury. The expediency of the present mode he argued from the impost's being carried to the utmost; from the approbation of this mode by a majority of the people; and though uneasiness might prevail in some of the Southern States, he considered them as originating altogether from want of due information. Possessed of that information, he could pledge himself to the committee that they would cheerfully acquiesce in whatever the Legislature should decide to be for the general interest.

With respect to the bill's being agreeable to the principles of liberty and republicanism, this would more properly come into view when that part of the bill which designates the mode of collection comes under consideration. At present he would only say, that he had observed with pleasure, that there appeared to be a universal disposition in the members of the House to manifest the most scrupulous attention, in all their deliberations, to the liberties of the people.

On the whole, he had no doubt that, on mature reflection, the people would acquiesce in the present plan, when the honor, security, and peace of the United States appeared to be

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essentially connected with a further provision |ed would not happen once in a hundred years, for the public exigencies. he conceived that the present characters, who Mr. STONE particularly alluded to the state- now hold the above offices, would be entirely ment offered by Mr. JACKSON, by which it ap-out of the question. He had in view a different pears that only the sum of 146,000 dollars was person, and that was the President of the wanting-whereas the Secretary's report calls for Senate, pro tempore, and moved that the blank the enormous sum of 800,000 dollars. He called be filled with this person. on gentlemen to show the errors of the statement offered by the gentleman. It had not been done. He then adverted to the number of people that would probably be wanted in order to make the duty productive. He believed they would be so numerous as to be sufficient to constitute an army.

Mr. FITZSIMONS read an estimate of the actual and probable produce of the present impost and tonnage for the current year, by which it appears there will be a deficiency of upwards of 300,000 dollars; but taking into consideration certain contingencies, which, should they take place, will diminish the amount of the present duties, it appeared that the deficiency would be much larger than the sum mentioned; but even in case of a surplus being produced by this bill, there are objects to which it can be applied highly beneficial to the United States. He instanced sinking the deferred stock, and the three per cents. The reduction of the public debt is an object which ought never to be lost sight of.

MONDAY, January 10.
Vacancy in the Presidency.

In Committee of the Whole on the bill, declaring what officer, in case of vacancy [by death, removal, or inability] in the offices of President and Vice President, shall act as President, Mr. BOUDINOT in the chair.

The first clause of the bill was read, which contains a blank to be filled up, designating the person who shall act as President.

Mr. WHITE observed, that the constitution says the vacancy shall be filled by an officer of the United States. The President, pro tempore, of the Senate, is not an officer of the United States. Besides, this will give one branch of the Legislature the power of electing a President. This, he conceived, was contrary to the constitution, as both branches have a right to an equal voice in the appointment in this case. This will introduce the very evil intended to be guarded against.

Mr. WILLIAMSON said, the motion was directly repugnant to the constitution. Why not choose the Speaker of this House? Mr. LIVERMORE said, he was well aware of the objections offered by the gentlemen. He could have wished the constitution had pointed out the person. But he conceived that the Senate was the only body that could do this business. If either of the officers mentioned should be the person designated to supply the vacancy, it would be in the power of the Vice President, by virtue of the power of removing officers, absolutely to appoint a successor, without consulting either branch of the Legislature.

Mr. SHERMAN observed that this matter is left with the Legislature. The whole power of the people, in case of vacancy, devolves on the Legislature. The particular officer is not pointed out; it lies with Congress to say who it shall be. The President of the Senate is an officer of the United States. In case of the death of a Governor and Lieutenant Governor, it is common in the several States, for the oldest councillor to preside. He instanced the case of the abdication of James II. Adverting to the constitution, he showed that the appointment of Vice President, in certain cases, devolves on the Senate. The vacancy may be filled for a longer or shorter time, and this appears to be a question previous in its nature to

Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina) observed that, by the constitution, the vacancy is to be filled with an officer of the United States. This narrows the discussion very much. But he conceived there was a previous question necessary to be determined; and that was, whether the person appointed to supply the vacancy should hold the office during the time for which the Pre-be determined. sident and Vice President were elected, or whether he was to hold the office only till a new election could take place. He thought that, by the constitution, a new election was not to take place till the term for which the President and Vice President had been elected was expired.

He then descanted on the respective offices of the Chief Justice, Secretary of State, and Secretary of the Treasury; and, by several particulars, showed that the appointment would most naturally devolve on the Secretary of State. He accordingly moved that the blank be filled with the words "The Secretary of State." Mr. LIVERMORE observed, that in considering this question, he thought no reference should be had to the officers which had been mentioned, for, as it was supposed that the case contemplat

Mr. SEDGWICK said he should be in favor of the motion of the gentleman from New Hampshire, if it was not for the express provision in the constitution, which says, the office shall be filled by an officer of the United States. Should the vacancy now happen, there would be no officer of the Senate that could be appointed.

He mentioned that the office of Chief Justice was considered as next to that of President, and therefore on the whole, he considered him as the most proper person to fill the vacancy. He thought the bill respecting the votes for President and Vice President should be first determined. He moved, therefore, that the committee should rise, and take up the next bill.

Mr. CARROLL and Mr. LIVERMORE objected to the motion for the committee's rising