827 County Courts Further {LORDS} Extension Bill-Question. 828 pursue with reference to one point, which had not been alluded to in former debates on the Bill, but which appeared to him to make a dangerous alteration in the law, and which, therefore, he wished explained? He found that by the 16th clause, it was to be enacted that either party, who should be dissatisfied with the determination of the County Court Judge in point of law, in any case, whether tried by jury or not, might appeal to the Superior Courts. Now, the effect of this would be to give a power of appeal in cases less than 207., and virtually to do away with the advantages of the original Act: for by the 13 & 14 Vict., a party who might be dissatisfied with the decision of a County Court on a point of law, might appeal; but that only applied to cases involving sums between 201. and 501. He wanted to know what was the intention of the noble Lord, for he considered that this power of appeal in such cases would be totally destructive of the efficacy of the County Courts. If the learned Lord persisted in the clause, he (Lord Beaumont) would move to expunge it; but if the noble Lord agreed with him as to the danger of retaining it, he would willingly leave the amendment of the Bill to the learned Lord. few words in order to remove a misappre- | charge of the County Courts Further Exhension which had gone abroad of what he tension Bill, what course he intended to had stated a few nights ago. He was supposed to have complained that the Master of the Megara, instead of having taken his course down the mid-channel, had put into Plymouth for his own purposes, and had thus led to the inconvenience and discomfort of the troops on board. That was an erroneous notion. He had complained of the conduct of that officer, and had said that he had gone to sea in extremely bad weather, to which he ought not to have exposed the troops-that it was his duty to have taken shelter either under Dungeness or in St. Helen's Bay, and more especially as, if he had stood in need of help, Portsmouth would, in both cases, have been near at hand. It never could have occurred to his mind that the ship would be exposed to less inconvenience by going down the mid-channel. He had stated that he knew that there was a predetermination existing in the mind of the Master to go into Plymouth for certain objects of his own, and that for that purpose he had forced his ship against a heavy head westerly wind, to the great inconvenience of the troops. He thought that it was the duty of the Master to have sought shelter at one of the places which he had just mentioned. He did not complain of this mis-statement, nor of the gallant Admiral who had written a letter upon it. He wrote on the faith of the report, and the faith of the report might be as much his (the Earl of Minto's) fault as that of the gentleman who had reported it. LORD REDESDALE observed, that it appeared to him that there was one point with regard to the Megara which had not yet been explained. It had been said that the Master of the Megara had put into Plymouth because, having a contract to supply the ship with provisions, he could purchase them there cheaper than elsewhere. Now, if a supply of provisions at Plymouth was necessary, the Megara must have started from the Downs with a supply insufficient for the voyage. Else, why were provisions to be taken in at Plymouth? The EARL of MINTO was understood to say, that the provisioning of the ships was undertaken by the Admiralty. COUNTY COURTS FURTHER EXTENSION BILL QUESTION. LORD BEAUMONT begged to ask the noble Lord (Lord Brougham), who had LORD BROUGHAM was glad of the opportunity of making some remarks upon the Bill, and thanked the noble Lord, though he had not before known his intention of asking the question. Of the two courses open to him with reference to these County Courts, one was to bring in a general Bill consolidating in one Act-which would have been a matter of the utmost convenience-all the Acts relating to, and all the portions of Acts bearing upon County Courts, and to take that opportunity of correcting any errors that had crept into the Acts of 1846 and 1850, and into other Acts, or sections of Acts, bearing upon the same subject. Whatever mistakes experience had shown to have been committed, would thus have been removed; what omissions it had exposed, would have been supplied; and what additions it had proved desirable, would have been made. In short, a variety of improvements on the original sys tem of 1833, 1846, and 1850, would have been thus accomplished. But to this there were two objections: the first, that it would be desirable to wait for still further experience; the second, that there were other measures besides this in contemplation, | part of the Board of Inland Revenue, have which, if they were carried, would bear recently been compelled to pay a penalty materially on the County Court jurisdic- for issuing unstamped monthly newspapers? tion. Hence the delay as to that general The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEAct. But the other course, and which QUER said, the statement he made the he had pursued, was to obtain at all other day on this subject appeared to have events, and immediately, the benefits of been misunderstood. What he meant was, the present Bill, and which he had there- that after the discussion in the case alluded fore brought in as nearly as possible in to, the Government were not disposed to the same shape in which it came out press the point further. He did not mean of the other House of Parliament, as in to say that he acquiesced in the interprethat form it might be said to have the tation of the law in that case, as generally sanction of both Houses and of the Go- applicable, nor that the Government had vernment. It was in the other House of decided on what course they should take. Parliament that the clause to which the It fact, it was now under consideration noble Lord alluded had been inserted. It what steps it might be desirable to take, was not his, for he was anxious to keep because the interpretation which the Gothe law to what it was before, and to con- vernment had put upon the law had prefine the appeal to cases of between 201. vailed for the last 200 years. There were not many cases in which penalties had been inflicted, or compromises made. The only one in which there had been any such compromise was in the case of the Wakefield Examiner, and he did not feel disposed to refund the small sum of 107. paid on that occasion. and 501. INDIAN AFFAIRS. The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNE said, that with regard to the letter from Lord Ellenborough in defence of his measures, while Governor General of India, upon the non-production of which that noble Lord had commented the previous evening, he was happy to state that the Board of Control had found it, and it would be produced with the other papers relative to the same affairs. House adjourned to Monday next. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Friday, February 20, 1852. MINUTES.] PUBLIC BILLS.-1° Charitable Trusts; UNSTAMPED MONTHLY NEWSPAPERS. MR. HUME begged to ask if the noble Lord at the head of the Government acquiesced in the decision of the Court of Exchequer. As the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer said that he did not acquiesce in it, it was important to know if the Government did acquiesce in that which had been settled by a solemn decision. The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said, that he had distinctly stated that he did not concur with the decision. What he meant to say was, not that he was going to reverse the decision of the Court of Exchequer, but it was under consideration whether any steps should be taken on the question generally, on the authority of that decision. Subject dropped. MR. SCHOLEFIELD said, that he understood from the answer given on a former day by the right hon. the Chancellor of THE "MEGÆRA" STEAM SHIP. the Exchequer, to the right hon. Gentle- MR. ROEBUCK said, that, seeing the man the Member for Manchester, that he First Lord of the Admiralty in his place, was disposed to acquiesce in the decision he begged to ask him a question relative of the Court of Exchequer, in the recent to a steam vessel-the Megara, which was case of Dickens' Household Narrative of Events. Previously to that decision the Board of Inland Revenue had inflicted penalties on several publications of a like character, and, in particular, on the Wakefield Examiner. He begged to ask the right hon. Gentleman what course the Government intended to pursue as to indemnifying those parties, who, under a mistaken interpretation of the law on the some time since despatched to the Cape of Good Hope with 800 British soldiers on board. It was necessary, however, that he should preface his question by making certain statements to the House, and asking the right hon. Gentleman whether or not those statements were correct; and, if they were not correct, to be kind enough to furnish a true version of the circumstances to the House. Some time after naval officers of the Board spoke in the strongest terms of her capabilities as a troop-ship, both before and after she was fitted out. It was after communication There was the steamer left, a letter appeared in the Times newspaper written by a clergyman of the name of Buller, who stated that he had been on board the vessel-that she was in a state of the most dire confusion-with those officers, who were the most exthat no preparations appeared to have perienced on the subject of the conveybeen made for the accommodation of either ance of troops, and according to their sugofficers or soldiers-and that any one who gestions, that she had been fitted; but it had seen that vessel must be convinced was quite unnecessary that he should enuthat before she reached the end of her merate all the little alterations which were voyage some very serious disaster must effected, or the small conveniences with befall her. A few days afterwards that which she was supplied, and which had vessel was driven by stress of weather into never before had an existence in a troopPlymouth. She met with a severe gale ship. He might mention, however, that in going down Channel; and last Tuesday there was a gallery constructed for the another letter appeared in the same news- purpose of enabling the soldiers to cook paper signed by a person of the name of their food, in addition to the cooking place Hanway, which contained a statement to which was used by the crew. this effect: First, that the ordinary period also a washing-place for the troops, altofor performing the voyage from Plymouth gether separate and distinct from that of to Madeira was sixteen days by a sailing the crew. And, as regarded the accomvessel, and that by a steam vessel the or-modation for the officers, their cabins were dinary passage was seven days; but that furnished; they were allowed a steward to on account of Her Majesty's steam ship the Megara having on board only coal enough for six days' consumption when she left, the voyage from Plymouth to Madeira occupied her seventeen days, or ten days more than it ought to have done. The charge made against the persons who had the management of this service was, that the vessel was sent away totally unprepared for such a voyage, with that precious cargo of 800 lives on board; and that she was supplied with only six days' coals, though her destination was the Cape of Good Hope; and it was stated also that she was twice on fire after starting from Plymouth, and before her arrival at Madeira. He wished to know if these statements were correct or not; and, if they were, how the right hon. Baronet accounted for it that the Megara had no coals after the seventh day, and how it was that she had taken seventeen days on her passage to Madeira? SIR FRANCIS BARING would be happy to state the facts as fully as possible for the information of the hon. and learned Gentleman and the House. With regard to the case of the Megara, he might state that she was built in a private yard, and that her engines were, as usual, made by a private manufacturer; but in consequence of her being constructed of iron, it was thought most advisable to fit her out for the conveyance of troops, and he could give every assurance that the greatest care was taken in fitting her out for that purpose. Twice the Board of Admiralty themselves inspected the Megara, and the look after them; and crockeryware, glass, and plated articles were supplied to them, and that had never been done before. Probably it might be satisfactory to the House to be informed that the Simoom, though a somewhat larger vessel, was fitted exactly in the same manner as the Megara. In order to obviate any further complaints, the Board had asked the Horse Guards to appoint an officer to inspect the Simoom, and to make such suggestions of improvements with regard to the carriage of troops as might seem to him to be necessary. That officer, in company with one of the officers of the Admiralty, of great experience, inspected the Simoom; but he made no suggestions of importance for improv ing the arrangements. According to the araangement made in 1844, the Megara was capable of carrying more troops than she did carry. But in order that no inconvenience might be felt, his gallant Friend, under whose superintendence this particular department of the service was placed, communicated to the Horse Guards that, if they preferred it, he would send out 100 men of the regiment by another vessel. The Horse Guards then communicated with Colonel Buller, the commander of the regiment, who earnestly pressed that the troops should not be separated, but that the whole regiment should be sent out in the Megara. Colonel Buller looked at the matter in the spirit of a soldier. He thought that the separation of his troops would not conduce to their discipline when they arrived at the Cape, and were engaged in actual service; he preferred, therefore, that they should go together. | heavy gale for so long a time, they were And he (Sir F. Baring) asked the House surprised that her defects were so small; what would have been thought of the Ad- and that, so far from being detained there miralty if, after these grounds had been on her passage, the defects were all made stated to them, they had insisted that the good without difficulty, and she proceeded troops should be separated, in opposition on her voyage almost as soon as the attacks to the opinion of the officer in command of appeared in the newspapers alleging that the regiment, and of the Horse Guards, she had broken down. It was true, also, both of whom preferred that the troops that her passage from Plymouth to Madeira should be conveyed in one vessel? It had was a long one; but of course he (Sir F. been stated that the ship was lumbered Baring) could not command the winds and with Ordnance stores, and it was quite true the waves. He had a letter then in his that Ordnance stores were on board her. hands which was written by the master of The Admiralty having received a request the Birkenhead, who could not have been from the Horse Guards that certain Ord-aware when he wrote it of the various nance stores which were necessary for the regiment should be conveyed in the Megara, those stores were put on board accordingly. They consisted of the tents requisite for the accommodation of the troops in the event of their being called into the field, and the ammunition required for the rifles which they carried. That very day he (Sir F. Baring) had gone over the list of these Ordnance stores with the Adjutant General, at the Horse Guards, and that gentleman informed him that there was not an article in the list which it was not absolutely necessary the troops should have with them. How great would have been the clamour, and how severe the attacks upon the Admiralty, had they sent out a regiment for this service, and refused to convey the tents, stores, and ammunition it required. It had been stated that the coals on board the Megara were sufficient only for six days' consumption. But the Megara was a screw vessel; she had therefore all the advantage of sailing and steaming, and her coals were a ten days' supply at full steam, and twenty days' supply working with sails. Consequently he could not agree to the statement that she had only six days' coals on board. He did not know what quantity she might have consumed between Dover and Plymouth, at the latter of which places she re-coaled. He could not tell to within a ton either what quantity she had then on board; but he had every reason to believe that she left Plymouth fully coaled. It was quite true that on her passage between Dover and Plymouth she met a very heavy gale, and it was from that circumstance she had very properly put into Plymouth. But he had received a report from Devonport with regard to the defects of the Megara, and the observations of the practical officers who made it were, that, strained as she must have been by being forced against a VOL. CXIX. [THIRD SERIES.] statements which had gone forth to the |