"Return of the number of Threatening Letters received by Persons in the Counties of Louth, Monaghan, Armagh, and Down, between the 1st January 1849 and the 17th February 1852, which have been sent to the Government or lodged with the Police; specifying their Date and the Persons to whom they have been addressed." The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNE was understood to say that he had no objection to grant the return moved for by the noble Earl, who certainly had not overrated the importance of the subject; but that, with regard to any further measures of repression, the Government thought it advisable to await the termination of the forthcoming assizes in Ireland. The EARL of WICKLOW wished to call the attention of Her Majesty's Government to a change in the law of the country which had been from time to time brought before the Legislature, but had never been carried into effect. He alluded to a measure for enabling the venue to be changed in criminal cases. It was a measure which had been recommended by the highest authorities, and he was sure that, without it, convictions could not be obtained from the juries. intolerable state of intimidation? His them at the Suit of the Crown, and the Result of Lordship then referred to the murderous the same: And also, attacks which had been made upon Mr. Chambre and Mr. Eastwood, neither of whom had anything to do with land. The fault which the former had committed in the eyes of these conspirators was his having committed the priest Spooner to prison on a charge of having written a threatening letter; and the fault of the latter was, that he had deprived of his licence a publican at whose house one of their illegal meetings had been held on the Sabbath. He had already said that this Riband conspiracy had increased of late. It was not confined now to the counties of Louth, Armagh, and Monaghan; it was also rife in the county of Down. He would not trouble their Lordships by going into the details of the threatening letters which had been sent in that county; but he was anxious to draw their attention to a circumstance which had happened last Tuesday, and which he thought would naturally excite their indignation. The facts to which he referred were those which had already appeared in the public journals. [The noble Earl then read from an Irish journal an account of a trial which had occurred at one of the petty sessions in Ireland, where two policemen were fined 10s. for stopping at 10 o'clock at night a man on the highway, who, instead of having a blunderbuss in his possession, as they suspected, had only a bottle of whisky.] If these policemen erred, they erred in the right direction, and did not deserve any punishment. That decision would damp the ardour of the police, and would throw the apple of discord among the magistracy. He hoped that the Government would inquire into that case, and would take measures to enforce and strengthen the law until it was adequate to meet the outrages now so prevalent in Ireland. The assizes in Ireland would shortly take place, and he should make a point to attend them. If any cases should occur requiring the attention of their Lordships, he should bring them forward in the Motion on the general state of Ireland, of which he had already given notice. He then moved for an Address to Her Majesty, for "A Return of the Number of Murders, Cases of shooting at, waylaying, and other Outrages, in the Counties of Louth, Monaghan, Armagh, and Down, from the 1st of January, 1849, to the 17th of February 1852, in which Inquests or Informa tions were returned to the Clerks of the Crown and Peace; specifying the Crime, when committed, the Persons charged, and Proceedings against The EARL of GLENGALL regretted the indisposition on the part of the Government to take efficient steps to meet the terrible emergency in which the respectable portion of the Irish people found themselves. No man had had greater experience of special commissions than he, and he traced their failure to the difficulty of procuring the necessary evidence. No doubt pains were taken to get juries of the highest respectability; but without evidence to convict, all efficient action was paralysed. Owing to the insufficiency of the evidence in this particular case coming within his own knowledge, it appeared that a man tried and found not guilty by a jury by a majority of nine to three, was again acquitted a day or two after by another jury by a majority of seven to five. The juries were composed of the most respectable persons, and no blame could be attri buted to them. The question was, whether the Government were justified in sending that commission to Monaghan without sufficient evidence? Every one was satisfied that the evidence was not sufficient; and nothing could be more unfortunate than failing in a special commission. The Ribbandmen were generally known to the police, who could find them whenever they pleased at their places of resort, but could 66 The EARL of RODEN was understood to ask if the Government would assent to certain returns relative to the number of recent murders in Ireland? The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNE, on the part of the Government, assented to the Motion, at least in a modified form. The noble Marquess then said, with reference to the late special commission, that he should wish the whole of the proceedings before the commission to be laid upon the table. LORD LYNDHURST remarked that he did not think this would be sufficient to enable their Lordships to form any judgment as to the propriety of issuing the commission, for which purpose the applications made, or the evidence sent up to the Government, should be produced. never find them with papers-they were | evidence might prejudice their cases, he too clever for them. The authorities knew should not at present take that course, and them well, but had no power to arrest should wait until the result of the second them. He (the Earl of Glengall) considered trial was known. that changing the venue, introducing the Scotch jury system, or courts-martial, were of doubtful utility, for without evidence the trials were futile. He considered that the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act was almost justifiable to meet such an atrocious system of Thuggee. By its suspension in 1848 the Government had saved the lives of tens of thousands, and of devastations and burnings throughout half Ireland. The suspension of the Act is a question for consideration to meet such an emergency. It was not astonishing that Ribbandmen should have increased enormously. Not only was it a very old conspiracy, having existed ever since 1798, and being founded upon the United Irishmen" Association, but there had been an immense stimulus and impulse applied lately to the system by the agitation of tenant-right. Mr. O'Connell invented fixity of tenure to plunder the landlords; tenant-right had the same objects. The people construed it to mean that the tenant should occupy that land as an owner which he held now as tenant; it was the "stand-fast" system of the old American revolution, which was so successful. Nor was this all. The effect of the operations of the Encumbered Estates Commissioners had been to encourage the tenants in this agitation; for, with an appearance of justice, they might say that if confiscation was the order of the day, they ought to have a share, and that it was quite as fair they should have tenantright as that persons should be enabled to purchase the land at half its value. It was certain, at all events, that a wide-spread combination existed amongst the tenants, and those who aided them, to denounce the landlords systematically as the cause of all the evils in Ireland. Nor was this confined to the ordinary agitation of the country: for even the adherents of a Government which had descended to pay journalists for the support of "law and order" had not been ashamed to hold up the owners of the soil to execration and assassination in the very same journals. LORD LYNDHURST said, he had intended to ask that a copy of the report of the proceedings before the late special commission in the chief cases should be laid before their Lordships; but as he understood the persons acquitted were to be again indicted, and as observations on the LORD BROUGHAM said, with reference to the remarks made by the noble Earl (the Earl of Wicklow), as to the question of venue, that subject was worthy of consideration; and it should be borne in mind that in Scotland such a system as that suggested (of changing the venue in criminal cases as a matter of course where there was the least doubt of a fair trial) had existed from time immemorial-that is to say, a criminal trial could take place either in the county in which the offence was committed, or in any other. He could not, however, at all approve of another suggestion which had been made for abolishing the system of unanimity in juries. He thought such a change would be extremely dangerous. LORD ABINGER believed the proceedings in the case of the policeman to which the noble Earl had referred, had originated under the Crime and Outrage Act, which authorised a search for weapons, so that the matter was the more unexplainable. Motion agreed to. HOSTILITIES AT LAGOS. VISCOUNT CANNING: Seeing the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs in his place, I beg leave to ask him whether Her Majesty's Government is prepared to lay on the table any papers explanatory of the events which have recently occurred at Lagos. Your Lordships will have seen in the public prints a copy of the official report from the Commodore of the West African Station to the Admiralty, in which he states the nature of the operations, and the great The EARL of ELLENBOROUGH said, that if any papers connected with the unfortunate affair at Lagos should be laid before the public, he should like to know whether any orders had been sent from the Admiralty to our officers on that coast not to fight on Christmas-day. His reason for asking that question was, that it appeared that the operations were com loss of life with which they were attended. | general subject intelligible to their LordIt was only natural and proper that such ships. despatches should be published at the earliest possible opportunity; but your Lordships may fairly make a claim for further information, as in the very first paragraph of the despatch printed in the newspapers, allusion is made to "the instructions of the 14th of October," and also "to the wishes of the late Secretary for Foreign Affairs as far as regards Lagos," which appear to have been the ground and guide of the re-menced two days before Christmas-day, cent operations. I am sure that the noble and were suddenly stopped for that dayEarl will not think that I ask this ques- a circumstance to which he attributed half tion from any hostility to the progress and consummation of that great task in which we have been engaged now nearly half a century. It is on behalf of the great cause of the suppression of the slave trade that I wish these papers to be laid before Parliament early. It is too much the custom to father on the suppression of the slave trade much inconvenience and expense and loss of life which are not attributable to that cause; and we may gather even from the public prints that the disastrous loss of life which occurred off Lagos is not wholly to be assigned to our exertions for the suppression of the slave trade. Whether it was necessary for the protection of our commerce on that coast, or whether it was owing to some desire on our part to depose one Negro king and to set up another, I will not pretend to discuss, or invite the noble Earl to say; but as the noble Lord, his predecessor in office, was the protector of one black king on the Mosquito shore, I hope that his experience of the responsibility of such an office on one side of the Atlantic, has not led him to take up lightly the protection of another king on the other side. I think that it is most desirable that all papers bearing upon these transactions should be laid before Parliament, and if the noble Earl accedes to my request, I hope that he will select from the preceding papers contained in the voluminous blue books upon the Slave Trade which have been already laid before the House, any despatch which may throw light on the course which our naval officers were instructed to pursue. EARL GRANVILLE had no objection to furnish all the information on the subject of which Her Majesty's Government were in possession. He would take care that such selections would be made from the blue books, or any other available sources, as would aid in making both the particular transaction in question and the the loss of life which subsequently oc- to the improvement of the health of the experience, whether he did not know that crews. COUNTY COURTS FURTHER EXTENSION BILL. House in Committee (according to order). The LORD CHANCELLOR moved the omission of words from Clause 24 which enables barristers to appear for clients without the intervention of attorneys, and the substitution of words enabling the wife, clerk, or servant, bona fide, of any suitor, to appear on his or her behalf. He wished to offer a few observations upon two points suggested by the terms in which this clause was framed-first, upon the expediency of allowing barristers to practise who were not instructed by attorneys, but who communicated with and were instructed directly by the suitors; and, next, as to the new order in the profession which seemed about to arise from attorneys associating themselves to practise as barristers, or rather as advocates instructed by other attorneys. Undoubtedly, as far as experience went, nothing had been considered, generally speaking, more detrimental to the administration of justice than the practising of barristers without being instructed by attorneys. Very few persons were found to practise in that way; but there had at all times been a few barristers who had communicated directly with their clients. He believed he might appeal to his noble and learned Friend (Lord Brougham), as he might to all the Judges, with regard to the conduct of such persons. It had never met with approbation, and had never been regarded as advancing the interests of justice. He believed the general rule which had been acted upon had conduced to the creation of that high character which the profession enjoyed. He had lately had some communications with gentlemen who had come from America, and were acquainted with the state of the profession in that country, and he had never heard any other remark from any member of the Bar in that country than this-that they were very much struck with the different manner in which business went on in this country and in America; that they found it went on here with much more order and much more satisfaction; and they ascribed this to the circumstance of the barristers in that country not being instructed by an attorney, and not forming a distinct profession. He appealed to his noble and learned Friend (Lord Brougham), with his former VOL. CXIX. [THIRD SERIES.] formerly it was made matter of complaint against those members who departed from the ordinary practice, and they were ungraciously looked upon. He must repeat his opinion, that under the system proposed by this Bill, the public would not enjoy the same advantages as the present distribution of duties and business produced, and that the administration of justice would be greatly prejudiced by such a course being adopted. He considered that even in the Superior Courts at Westminster the practice of counsel receiving instructions directly from their clients would be found most inconvenient, although there the Judges possessed higher authority than the County Court Judges, and commanded a respect which the gentlemen who presided in the County Courts, respectable as they were, and competent to discharge their duties, could scarcely hope to obtain. If this clause were passed, an impression would certainly be created that this irregular practice was sanctioned by the authority of their Lordships, and it would no doubt be found to increase considerably. He submitted, therefore, that it would not be expedient to make any change in this respect. Another point to which he wished to advert, was that of attorneys themselves practising as advocates; and he feared that if the House of Lords should give their sanction to this practice, it would very much increase. He conceived this to be a course attended with many inconveniences. If an attorney wished to act as an advocate, the road was open to him; and there were instances of those who, having commenced the practice of their profession as attorneys, had afterwards pursued a successful career at the Bar. But there was no reason whatever why an attorney should desert his practice, why he should quit that path which he professed to desire to pursue when admitted on the rolls of the Court. Why the attorney should resort to another attorney to act as advocate, and not to a barrister, he could not discover, and he did not believe there there was any good reason for it. He apprehended it was likely to lead to grave inconveniences. He should therefore propose, in substitution of the existing clause in the Bill, an alteration which would leave the law as it at present stood. LORD BROUGHAM quite agreed with his noble and learned Friend that it would be a serious injury to the profession if the two functions of advocate and attorney Y Не were confounded; but it did not by any torneys, was found by experience to be as means follow that he should also agree little infringed in Bankruptcy Courts, Powith those who, in 1846, for the first lice Courts, and all other inferior Courts, time, introduced a statutory prohibition as it was in the Court of Chancery, the (9 & 10 Vict., c. 95, s. 91), confined Queen's Bench, or on the circuits; and at exclusively to the County Courts, prevent- Manchester, where the County Courts was ing barristers from practising in those attended by a Bar of fifteen or sixteen Courts unless they were instructed by a members, the practice was as rigidly adsolicitor or attorney. Up to 1846, every hered to as it was on the Northern Circuit. barrister had the power of appearing in His noble and learned Friend was very any Court in the kingdom, instructed by a justly anxious to prevent the rise of a class client, without any intervention whatever of of attorneys-advocates, receiving their inan attorney or solicitor; and the exception structions not directly from the client himthen introduced applied only to the County self, but through the medium of another Courts. What, then, had prevented the attorney; but any restriction that could be practice from being general? The usage adopted with the view of checking such an of the profession, professional etiquette, evil must be practically nugatory, because supported by the heads of the profession it would be impossible to restrain an attorboth at the Bar and on the Bench, who so ney who had not the qualification, or the discountenanced, on all occasions, the class time, perhaps, for appearing personally in of individuals who practised both as attor- Court from instructing another attorney to neys and barristers, that no respectable appear, on the understanding that they member of the profession had been known were to divide the fee between them. to violate the rule, by generally practising had in his possession a declaration signed without instructions from attorneys. The by 150 highly respectable members of the County Courts Act, however, introduced Bar, praying earnestly for the abolition a positive prohibition, and the only question was whether they should continue that prohibition or repeal it, and place the County Courts upon the same footing as all other Courts, from the highest to the lowest. He was in favour of placing the County Courts, in this respect, on the same footing as all other Courts, leaving the practice in them to be regulated by the decent and salutary professional observance which was effective everywhere else. If this prohibition had never been enacted, he believed it would not now be proposed; but it was said, that having once been enacted, its repeal would be held by the profession to give a countenance to the breach of the existing usage and general understanding. He, for one, could not think the repeal would have any such effect, accompanied as it would be by the universal desire on the part of its supporters that the matter should be left to the etiquette of the profession, but the opinion that as a general general rule there should be instructions. But some even went so far as to say that if we had to begin to legislate de novo, an exception ought to be made in regard to the County Courts, because they were more obscure, and the Judges of them would not have the same authority as the Judges of the Superior Courts. But it should be recollected that the professional etiquette, restraining barristers from appearing without the intervention of at He of this prohibition with regard to their |