those ages was a long, complicated, and very costly one. We conceive that it would be at the same time better, and a great advantage to a large portion of the population, if, taking the force we thought sufficient, we took them within a shorter number of years. We propose, therefore, for the first year, that the ages at which persons should be subject to ballot for the local militia should be from twenty to

and when that was done, the militia might return to their homes, or at all events be confined to very limited and partial service. I will now state the nature of the local militia as it was established in 1808. and amended in 1812, and remained till the end of the war. The local militia were balloted for in the same manner as the regular militia, by a long and expensive process, I think, and when chosen they were assembled and trained for twenty-twenty-three, and in subsequent years that eight days in the year. They were balloted for from all persons between eighteen and thirty years of age, and they were commanded by persons appointed by the Lord Lieutenant, having certain qualifications in respect of property. The proposals we have now to make, so far as there is any change, are, first, with respect to the officers. With respect to the officers, we propose that two-thirds should be appointed by the Lord Lieutenant, and one field officer and one-third of the captains by the Crown; so that the regiments may have the benefit of the experience of half-pay officers available for this service, and who must be of great use in assisting the officers appointed by the Lord Lieutenant. We propose that the Lord Lieutenant should not be bound by the restriction of qualification, but that he should name any persons for officers he may think fit, of course with the approbation of the Crown, as formerly, but without the requirement that they should be possessed of a certain amount of landed property. It is very desirable that the gentlemen of the county should take their part in the command of the local militia, but that there should not be too strict a regard had to a qualification derived from property. When the original militia laws were framed, there was a very great jealousy of the Crown, and of encroachments upon liberty, and it was supposed that if there was a limitation to persons of property, it would form a security against any attempt of the Crown in that respect; but our liberties are now so firmly secured, that of all dangers there is none less than that of an attempt by the Crown, by means of a standing Army, to suppress our liberty. With regard to the men, we propose some alteration from the former plan, according to which all men between eighteen and thirty years of age were subject to the ballot. That was a considerable number of years; and the process of sending round to each householder, and requiring a return of the number of persons in his house between

they should be only persons of the ages of twenty to twenty-one. It is supposed that the former proposition of taking from twenty to twenty-three, taking one-fifth as the number to be balloted, would give a force of about 80,000 men, and that in subsequent years the number to be procured from the age of twenty to twentyone would amount to an average of 30,000. In procuring these men, I think it would not be necessary to adopt the means taken formerly; I believe that, with the assistance of the census of last year, we should know the number of persons in each county and union who would be liable to the ballot, and that it would be sufficient to require all such persons to present themselves on a certain day; that, however, is a part of the machinery of the Bill which requires great consideration. I will not now enter further into the details, but only say, that I think the process may be more economical and speedy than that hitherto adopted, owing to the change in the age to that of twenty to twenty-one in most years, instead of eighteen to thirty, and with the advantage of our knowledge which we have obtained through the census of the number that ought to be in the union and parish between those ages. With a view to the ballot, the Lord Lieutenant will be ordered to make the necessary subdivision of the county, having regard to the boundaries of unions and parishes, and it will be necessary to make such subdivision where there are not at present unions and parishes. The Deputy Lieutenant of the county, some of the magistracy, and adjutant, and some other officers of the local militia, would be present when the men were to be balloted for. It is proposed that when they are balloted, one-fifth should be taken, and that ten per cent of those remaining be taken as a reserve for all cases where excuses might afterwards be made. There would then be, according to the Militia Acts, an appeal, at which excuses might be made or disqualifications proved; and

there would be the examination whether hostilities they would become very effecthe men were fit for service, and those who tive. It should be remembered that many belonged to the reserve of ten per cent of our great battles have been fought with might be called in to supply deficiencies. armies a considerable portion of the troops It is proposed also that any man from of which were mere recruits-troops which twenty to thirty years of age may volun- had never been in action, and which had teer to serve in the local militia, and that received their training almost exclusively so far as these volunteers supply the requi- in the field. The next question is, what site number, the balloting should not take will be the immediate expense of this place. It is proposed likewise that the force? It is estimated that in the course volunteers thus placed in the local militia of the present year not more than 30,000 should serve for one year less than the men would require to be trained in the balloted men. The period of service pro- manner I have described-there would be posed for the local militia is four years; a greater number enrolled, but that is the but it is proposed that we might by an number which it is intended to train for Order in Council require them to serve for the year. The expenses altogether, insix months longer, and in case of Parlia- cluding the ballot, in the first instance, ment, by an address to the Crown, re- the cost of clothing, the pay for the time quiring their services still further, another the men are at drill, and the expense of period of six months may be added, mak- the officers attached to the force, would be ing twelve months altogether, in the event somewhere about 200,000l. It may be of the country being menaced with dan- necessary to take a somewhat larger sum, ger. I next come to the question how as there may be a number of small incithese men shall be trained in the use of dental expenses not included in this sum. arms. It is proposed that they should be The number of men enrolled in the first formed into battalions, and be assembled year will not be less than 70,000; in the either for fourteen or twenty-eight days in next year there would be 100,000, in the the first year, and for fourteen days in third about 120,000. These would be the subsequent years. It is not proposed that numbers enrolled only, not called out. either the twenty-eight or the fourteen The further calling out of the force would days should necessarily be consecutive; be matter for the consideration of the the men might be trained for a week, and Crown and Parliament, and the force then, if it were necessary for any opera- might readily be increased to 150,000 tions in the country, or for any other rea- men. Such, then, is the plan of Her son, they might go back to their homes Majesty's Government for amending the and come again at another period of the laws respecting the local militia. It inyear. That is the practice at present volves, of course, a large number of dewith regard to the pensioners. It is like- tails; my object, however, was rather to wise proposed that three hours' drill and give the Committee a general idea of the training should count for half a day, which plan than to enter into any detailed exwould be a more convenient period to take planation. I believe myself that the peoin some parts of the year, when the ser- ple of this country will gladly adopt the vice might be performed after the regular use of such a force as the militia for the work or business of the militia man is purpose of its security and defence. I ought finished. During the period they should not, however, to omit to state that the be out, they would have the same pay and Bill will contain a provision to the effect allowances as regular soldiers, and would that in certain places, where there is a be of course subject to the provisions of large police force in existence, such force the Mutiny Act. With regard to the should be organised and trained according service to which this force could be ap- to the regulations of the local militia; and plied, I conceive that in case of any danger inasmuch as there would then be a trained of invasion they could be embodied and force in such particular county, that there marched to any part of the country where should be a proportionate exemption from their services might be required. With such members of the local militia as would respect to the amount of training which I otherwise be required in the first ballot. think it would be necessary to afford the In cases where volunteer corps already men, and which I have already stated, I exist, or might hereafter be raised, their believe that it will be found amply suffi- services will be accepted by the Crown, cient for the purpose, and that in a very according to the provisions of the law at short time after the commencement of present in force, and such force of volun

teers will be accounted as corps of local encountered by a body of Irish militia, militia, and in proportion to their numbers commanded by Colonel Vereker, now Lord would be the diminished force of militia Gort. [An Hon. MEMBER: Surely not the which would be required. This, therefore, present Lord Gort.] Well, his father. It is the plan which I shall have to propose; was a trifling mistake; and there was no when, however, the Bill is before the doubt that it was very creditable to the House, hon. Members will be better able present Lord Gort to have had such a to judge of its provisions. For my own father. To have exempted Ireland from part, I should be perfectly willing if upon this plan was, therefore, no compliment to the details the Bill were referred to a the loyalty of that kingdom: and he Select Committee for the purpose of con- greatly regretted that the noble Lord had sidering how far it might be advisable to made such a mistake. adapt its provisions to the present Local Militia Act, or to make such further improvements in it as might be considered necessary. Whatever may be the course adopted with respect to the details, if the principle of the Bill is agreed to, it will be a satisfaction to me to have proposed to the Committee a plan for laying the foundation of a national force of this kind.

SIR JOHN PAKINGTON begged that the noble Lord, before the debate proceeded further, would state one point more clearly. The noble Lord had not stated how the force was to be distributed over the country with regard to the counties.

LORD JOHN RUSSELL: In counties. They are not to be taken out of their own counties without their own consent, except in cases of danger of invasion, or of other imminent danger.

MR. REYNOLDS said, the noble Lord had not replied to his question as to whether this Bill would apply to Ireland. MR. HUME said, he had heard the stateLORD JOHN RUSSELL: This is a Billment of the noble Lord with deep regret. only for England and Wales. With respect He (Mr. Hume) was totally opposed to this to Ireland, we do not propose a local militia. project. He was as earnest in his desire MR. REYNOLDS supposed that he was that the country should run no risk as any to consider that the noble Lord had now one else; but if they were in danger, he answered his (Mr. Reynolds') question, but was for having a proper regular force, as, he was at a loss how to interpret the for instance, the existing force properly answer. He did not know whether the applied; and he warned the Committee and exception of Ireland from the Government the country against sanctioning the prinplan was to be regarded as a boon or an ciple involved, and all the social mischief insult. As an Irishman he could not accept implied, in the scheme of a local militia. the exemption of Ireland as a compliment. The militia was an old and worn-out expeIf the arguments of the noble Lord were dient. The militia was resorted to for the good for embodying a local militia in Eng-purpose of avoiding the putting the Crown land-and he (Mr. Reynolds) was not pre- in possession of too great a standing army; pared to say that they were not good-and the course which was formerly taken those arguments were still better as ap- in removing the militia force from under the plied to Ireland. If it was necessary because of the fear of an invasion from some part of the Continent-and he could not guess as to the particular country by which they were most likely to be interfered with —to raise a local militia in England, there was more urgent need of possessing such a force in Ireland, where, in consequence of her geographical position, the danger was still greater. He must remind the noble Lord that an Irish local militia was embodied once before at a time of great peril, when the existence of the empire was in the scale. He must remind the noble Lord, in particular, of 1798, when an armed French force arrived at Killala, and marched without impediment from the Bay of Killala to the centre of Sligo; and it should not be forgotten that that force was

control of the Crown, and placing it under the government of a Committee of the House of Commons, indicated the jealousy which had existed between the Crown and the Parliament, and out of which sprung the very idea of such a force at all. That jealousy had now long ceased; and no one within those walls would have any jealousy of any powers Her Majesty might enjoy as the executive officer of this country; for the Crown, like every individual in the nation, would be bound by the rules which the constitution laid down. Why, then, were they to revert back to a system of war preparation which no longer was necessary? This scheme would be a tax bearing most unjustly upon those classes who would be drafted into the local militia. The service would be compulsory; and thus

people who could not afford absence from | noble Lord had talked about the "balance home would be subjected to a removal from of power," and of the expediency of this their ordinary occupations, to their own country being on its guard when the balance great injury, and to answer no good na- was overthrown, and of some one nation tional purpose whatever. The proposition assuming too much. What did the noble which he would submit to the Committee Lord mean? Did the noble Lord consider was, whether, with so large a military force, that France was two powerful? He (Mr. and with so large a naval force, they would Hume) considered that France, at this mobe warranted in consenting to the plan pro- ment, was far weaker-far less likely to pounded by the noble Lord. An expense become the aggressor of England-than of 200,000l. was, no doubt, a slight matter; at any former period. Were we to have but they were not to consider this plan in some new Holy Alliance against some one reference simply to the expense. It was a Continental State? He was astonished at plan full of social evil. The evil would such ideas-at such a policy-in the prefall altogether on the poorer classes. The sent Government. Was any man in that payment to obtain exemption from the con- House so mad as to think that he would scription was a heavy and serious burden ever again see a British soldier on the conto men of the working classes; and he tinent of Europe as an aggressor? Such thought the proceeding both morally and a sight would never be seen, would never politically injudicious; for it was resorting be permitted again. To contemplate such to the old doctrine which was held before a thing was to contemplate a renewal of the division of labour was recognised. But that fatal foreign policy which had saddled there could be a division of labour in de- the country with 800,000,000l. of debt, and fending the country as in everything else. which sum, as a permanent debt, ground He was for the regular army so long and down the whole people. The noble Lord to such an extent as the regular army was could not be aware of the dissatisfaction necessary. To take one of the industrious which would be experienced at this proposal community forcibly and make him tempo- to force portions of the population into comrarily a soldier was mischievous; in the first pulsory service. There was no suggestion place, as removing him from a labour that that the men so forced from their homes were could not probably do without him; and in to be enfranchised. Oh, no! They were to the next place, as unfitting him, by the be the defenders of the country; but they new habits he would acquire, for resum- were not to have the rights of citizenship. ing an orderly citizenship. They had Here, then, was a Whig Government adoptseen the effects of what he might call ing the principles and the practices so semilitia forces on national characters verely reprobated in the Tory Governments among the nations on the Continent; and of former years; and if the noble Lord he wanted to know if they were to over- persevered in such courses, he (Mr. Hume) look all the lessons thus taught them. would tell him that the day was not distant France used to be referred to as an ex- when he would have to give way. The ample to be avoided; and now they were noble Lord seemed to have forgotten Lord going to imitate her example. He had Grey's declaration, and the approbation nothing to say against military men. He which that declaration elicited from the was not abusing military men. They form- whole people. He (Mr. Hume) would take ed habits necessary to their profession, the sense of the Committee on the queswhich were fit for their profession and not tion, if he could find a seconder, and he for ordinary callings, being, as he believed, would give the Committee the opportunity dangerous to private society. What was of dividing. now proposed was to introduce military manners, modes of thought, and modes of acting into ordinary life; and it was to this he objected. But, apart from the principle of the Bill, he objected to the details. The men to be selected, according to the noble Lord's plan, were to be between twenty and twenty-three years of age. Now, why was this margin fixed upon arbitrarily? Why were men between twenty-five and thirty to be exempt? It was an obvious injustice, and utterly indefensible. The

He would ask what were the fleet of 250 vessels doing, that they could not be employed in the protection of our own coasts? After thirty-seven years of peace they were bound to hesitate before they adopted hastily exploded principles and proved bad systems. He would demand that, before they arbitrarily interfered with the civil rights of the people, they should inquire if their existing naval and military forces could not be better and more efficiently applied. The noble Lord, no doubt, wished peace. But here, in this proposal,