CHATTERTON: I did nothing of the kind.] He had not stated the hon. and gallant Gentleman had done so, but that such things were constantly done. This vessel, so far from having been untried, had served, not only at Woolwich, but at Portsmouth. It was, indeed, very easy to make those general and sweeping allegations, but not at all so easy to prove them. The Admiralty had been found fault with for embarking troops in the Megara, alleging that she was not a sound vessel; but the fact was, the Megara was a properly selected and most efficient vessel, and had weathered a very severe gale of wind, notwithstanding the statements of a gallant Admiral, who had made himself conspicuous by his letters in the newspapers, and who alleged that the Megæra had broken down. He fully believed that the result of an inquiry would be the entire confirmation of the statements of his right hon. Friend (Sir F. Baring). All these questions the Admiralty were perfectly ready to meet, and he was satisfied it would come out in Committee, that everything had been done which ought to have been done in every case mentioned. For his own part he was obliged to the hon. Member (Sir W. Jolliffe) for having brought the subject forward. ing more like horses' than anything else, being into that second contract? The AdmiMR. MILES said, he was not a little ralty was not justified in giving this astonished at the speech of the gallant second contract to Mr. Goldner after the Admiral who had just sat down. He running contract was known to be so (Mr. Miles) regretted that the case of ill supplied. But where were the securithe Apollo and Megara had been intro- ties? Why were they not proceeded duced into the discussion, and hoped the against? Was everything done to take Committee would not inquire into them. care that Mr. Goldner should perform his The question was, whether or not a pro-contract properly? Again, he wished to per supervision had taken place over the supply of meat to the Navy-not the preserved meats of Goldner's merely, but the salt meat also. The right hon. Baronet (Sir F. Baring) had spoken of the system of preservation as not perfect; but they did not want to inquire whether the system was perfect or not, but how it was that abominable and excrementitious matter had come to be mixed up with the meat? He had received a letter from a naval officer, who stated the result of his own experience with regard to the supplies of provisions to the Navy. In quoting passages from that letter, he must beg to be excused for not giving either the name of the ship or the name of the officer, who thus wrote know what had been the quantity of meat destroyed under the contract from its commencement? He wished to see how they stood in pounds, shillings, and pence with Mr. Goldner. He knew perfectly well how they stood with him in regard to provisions, for nothing could be more execrable; but what he was desirous of knowing was, whether the people of this country, or Mr. Goldner, had been mulcted? That seemed to be the whole question. Another subject of inquiry before the Committee would be that of salted provisions. In the letter to which he had referred it was stated, with regard to salted provisions, that "In the first place the quantity condemned to be returned into store for the benefit of the Crown, or to be thrown overboard, is very great. In the "The preserved meats (Goldner's patent) are second place, there is a great loss of weight in now being done away with; but it was truly dis- boiling; the meat is cut into four-pound pieces, gusting to see the contents of some of the tins; including bone, before boiling, and the averago the offal, in some cases, with the dung inside, look-weight has been about 11lb. after, hardly ever 21b.; some I have seen as low as 9 oz. with bone. Now, as the men are allowed 2lb. of uncooked meat extra for each 4lb. piece that loses half its weight in boiling, there is a considerable sum paid for extras, as the following account of our estimates will show, beginning July 1, and ending Novem ber 7: Beef Pork SOUND. Proper Allowance. CONDEMNED. Extra, to make up de- To be Sold So bad that it required lb. lb. lb. lb. 2,445 1,012 1,824 1,118 The beef condemned was repacked and examined in January, 1849. The cause of decay seemed to be from the great quantity of blood left in the meat. The worst meat for losing weight was supplied to Government in Oct., 1847, or rather, I say, packed at that time; the pork was examined in January, 1850.” This statement showed the necessity for a strict inquiry being instituted into the whole subject, for it was not only on shipboard that these provisions were being given, but the colonial service was affected by it; and he trusted the inquiry to be instituted would be full and searching-that it would extend to ascertaining, not only what had been the nature of the supplies to our fleet, but to the expeditions which had been sent to the Arctic regions - Sir John Franklin's, for instance. tered into by the Admiralty with Mr. Goldtion of meat, at prices ranging from 8d. to ner, for supply of the very best descrip1s. per lb. He thought that this explanation would tend in some measure to allay the anxiety which was naturally felt on the subject of the provisions supplied to the Arctic Expedition. It was also well known that meat in the cold latitudes of the Arctic regions was not liable to decay; and in confirmation of the safety of supplying provisions of the kind, he might state that of 35,000 cases supplied to Captain Austin's expedition, only eighteen were found to be faulty. Some of the meat had been returned into store, and recent examinations had tended to confirm the opinion upon the subject. On all these grounds, therefore, he thought the public might safely conclude that the safety of Sir John Franklin and his crew would be in no degree perilled by the nature of the provisions which they took with them. CAPTAIN SCOBELL rejoiced that this subject had been brought before the House. He had listened with much attention to what had said on both sides, and it struck him that if Gentlemen on the other side of the House (the Opposition) were to have their Committee, they were giving evidence before the Committee sat. The Committee would hear evidence on all sides, whereas those hon. Gentlemen were only making statements and reading letters which they had received from parties interested on one side of the question. No doubt those who now administered the affairs of the Navy would be able in Committee to answer all the points which hon. Gentlemen were now prematurely bringing forward. He had belonged to the Navy before the discovery of the art of preserving meats, and he was not sorry for it; but they had brought that meat into consumption in the Navy, and it was his opinion that unless the system of supply was much amended, it was not likely to be finally approved of. MR. CORRY said, that having been connected with the Admiralty at the time the provisions were supplied to Sir John Franklin's expedition in 1845, he felt bound to remove the impression which appeared to be entertained, that the crews of the Arctic vessels were suffering from the improper food supplied by Mr. Goldner. In 1845 preserved meat was not issued as an article of food, but as one of medical comfort. At that time so excellent were these provisions that not more than one per cent of them had been found to be bad, while COLONEL SIBTHORP said, he was not in the best qualities of Irish salt meat it at all surprised at the Government preamounted to from two to three per cent; ferring a Hungarian Jew contractor to one so that in point of fact, there was then of our own countrymen. He had often greater safety in the potted meat than in recommended an improvement in the conthe ordinary salt provisions. The medical struction of the Board of Admiralty-worse comforts of the crew were, however, most than it now was could not be conceived. carefully looked to. The ordinary pre- Too many cooks spoiled the broth. He served meat for the use of the Navy was recommended the cutting down of two lay supplied to the Admiralty at the price of 5d. Lords; and he should say of them as he per lb. Being, however, anxious that the said of a noble relative of his who was in crews of this expedition should be furnished the Admiralty Board, that he would be with meat of the best possible character, sea-sick in a punt under Westminster a separate and special contract was en-Bridge. As regarded the contracts for stinking meat, he wanted to know how | gregor) believed that many cases of dammany tenders there were from solvent and aged meat had been designedly placed in respectable men, besides that which Gold- the contract for some wrong purpose. He ner sent. Probably Goldner would now trusted, however, that in future the prebe knighted, as knighting was the order served meats for the Navy would be made of the day. However, he still indulged a up in this country, and he was, therefore, hope that the name of Goldner would not glad that the subject was to be referred to be suffered to disgrace the list. He want- a Committee. ed to know what tenders had been offered by people in the United Kingdom, and how it was that nobody had any chance with the Admiralty but this Hungarian Jew? He never yet had been Jewed, and, with the assistance of God, he never would. The meat was not made to feed, but to poison. Had he his wish, the Board of Admiralty should be put to feed upon this stuff, instead of those fine dinners which they feasted upon. He would like to know where the price of those dinners came from. He supposed from the same source as the editor of the Dublin World newspaper had been paid-out of the secret service money. 7,000l. were lavished upon the World. He supposed there were other departments of Her Majesty's Government equally well managed. The water on board our ships was, he believed, as good as the preserved meat; and the cheese-American cheese-would choke a dog. MR. MACGREGOR was anxious not to let the question pass without a few words of observation. With the exception of the ships of the United States, the British Navy was better victualled than those of any other service in the world. It was a fact which ought to be extensively known that the victualling of ships was exclusively made up without reference to preserved meats. A sufficient quantity of food was put on board, and preserved meats were only superadded to the store already obtained. This was a circumstance which, were it known, would allay much anxiety in the residents of many of the seaport towns. The right hon. Baronet at the head of the Admiralty had taken as much care and bestowed as much pains on his department, as any person who had ever preceded him in that office; and if blame were to be attached to any person, it certainly was not the right hon. Baronet. There had been a great deal of exaggeration on the subject, and he was quite satisfied that upon investigation it would turn out that the First Lord of the Admiralty had taken every possible precaution in the way of security. It was clearly impossible, however, that he could foresee how this contract would turn out. He (Mr. Mac SIR WILLIAM JOLLIFFE, in reply. said, he had, in bringing forward the Motion, acted on his own responsibility, and not under the advice of any person or party whatever. He was satisfied that the inquiry should include the years 1845 and 1846, and, therefore, he was prepared to adopt that portion of the suggestion which would include the victualling of the Erebus and Terror. SIR FRANCIS BARING was only too happy to give the fullest facilities, and to make the inquiry as strict and as searching as possible. Select Committee appointed. LAW OF MORTMAIN. MR. HEADLAM, in rising to move the reappointment of the Select Committee of last Session to inquire into the Laws of Mortmain, said, that the Committee examined a great number of witnesses, some of whom gave very interesting and valuable evidence. Owing, however, to the late period of the Session to which their inquiries extended, the Committee separated without making any Report. He was now anxious that the Committee should be reappointed in order that they might receive some slight additional evidence before proceeding to make a Report. The Master of the Rolls for Ireland had been an active member of the Board for administering the Charitable Bequests Act in Ireland, and was able to give some valuable evidence to the Committee. was unable to come over last Session, and he (Mr. Headlam) wished the Committee to be reappointed, in order that his evidence might be taken on the operation of the present Law of Mortmain. There was some misapprehension as to the objects of the Committee, but he trusted their labours would lead to the law being placed upon a better foundation than at present. The Act of Lord Hardwicke had entirely failed in its object, and an Amendment in the law was requisite. They had no desire to offer any impediments to the stream of charitable donations; but they considered that it was infinitely better for those who had anything to give to give it during their own He lives, when they could superintend its dis- | in the case of the Dublin Steam Packet tribution. Select Committee appointed. BRAZIL MAIL PACKET CONTRACT. Company. They stated that they would not sanction it unless the services were put up for tender. A tender was accordingly made by the West India Steam MR. FITZSTEPHEN FRENCH mov- Packet Company at 3s. 2d. per mile, and ed for "Copies of the Tender made, or Agreement or Contract entered into, with the West India Mail Packet Company, to carry the Mail to the Brazils at three shillings and twopence per mile, and the number of voyages performed by that Company under such Tender, Agreement, or Contract." reason the contract was given to them. Now, the Screw Company were prepared to have carried the mails at 3s. 4d. per mile, whereas the other Company had only one small screw steamer, the Esk, which was totally unfit for the service. They never took any steps to carry out the contract, In bringing forward this Motion, it was nor were any proceedings instituted by the necessary for him to make a short state- Admiralty to force them to do so, although ment as to the course pursued by the it was clearly their duty to see the public Admiralty in reference to this subject. service performed. So matters went on Up to 1849, Government was in the habit until the contract for the carriage of the of carrying, through the instrumentality mails to the West Indies expired, and then of their own officers, the mail from Holy- a joint contract was given, without a pubhead to Dublin at an annual cost of about lic tender being called for, to the West 56,000l. At that time Lord Auckland India Mail Company, for the carriage of deemed it advisable that the service should the double mails at the enormous sum of be contracted for. It was put up to ten- 270,000l. a year. He really could hardly der, and the Dublin Steam Packet Com- credit the statement he was about to pany offered to do it for 45,000l. a year. make, but he was informed that this conA director of the Mail Packet Company tract had been given for the period of ten was told by the Lord of the Admiralty, years, although a tender from another whose peculiar province it was to regularly Company equally competent was in the to transact such business, that their tender possession of the Admiralty, to do the was accepted. However, certain parties same service for 80,000l. a year. Thus, connected with the Chester and Holyhead a sum of 190,000l. of the public money Railway thought it necessary to remon- had been wasted. He knew no strate with the Admiralty. It appeared why this particular Company, either on that a transaction by the Admiralty must public or private grounds, should be pecuhave a counter signature at the Treasury. liarly favoured; yet no stipulation had been Taking advantage of this, although the introduced into the contract, that the ships lowest tender had been accepted, the should be of timber of a certain scantling, or Treasury thought it necessary to interfere, that they should be able, in case of war, to and insisted that the matter should be carry guns of a certain calibre; which he reopened, and these gentlemen were had been informed they would not be able forced to take it afterwards much under to do. Again, though the Admiralty, in that sum, for the protection of their Liver- spite of the advantages offered by the empool traffic. If that had always been the ployment of iron in shipbuilding, had decourse pursued, perhaps he should not cided against the use of iron vessels, they have so grievous a case; but his complaint had, nevertheless, allowed them to be used was, that that had not been the course, by this favoured company. Again, the and that, on the contrary, a totally differ- Admiralty had taken no care as to the kind ent principle had been acted upon. In of wood of which the ships were made. 1849, Lord Auckland deemed it advisable The vessels of the Screw Company were that the last of the sailing packets from of oak, whereas those of the other comEngland to the Brazils should be super-pany were of pine; and they had seen the seded by a steam-packet, and he entered into an agreement with the Screw Steam Company, that the mail should be carried at a certain rate, the lowest rate that at that period had ever been agreed to by any company. The screw steamers were prepared to carry out this agreement, but the Treasury pursued the same course as evil effects of the use of pine, in the calamity which had occurred to the Amazon. That ill-fated vessel was built of pine, and the turpentine in that wood had added fury to the flames. The West India Company were now not efficient in the performane of their duties, for complaints were constantly being made against them. Letters from the West Indies were sent to New York to be brought | ruinously low to the contractors. With to England by Cunard's line, for expedi- reference to the last, the Australian Comtion. The company had not been selected pany, the contract was certainly very low; for their patriotism, for they had adopted but the company was composed of persons in the West Indies a Danish island for their of capital and substance, who had a good station. Seven of its vessels had already name in the City, and who could give efbeen lost, five of which, according to the fectual security that they would perform evidence of their own secretary, had been their undertaking, or pay the penalty to wrecked in consequence of the gross negli- which they would be exposed if the congence of their commanders. It had been tract should be broken. As to the consaid that the reason of the favour which veyances of the mails between Dublin and had been shown the Company was in com- Holyhead, it was quite true that the Admiseration of their losses; but even there miralty had at one time entered into an they were unable to make a case, for their agreement to pay 45,000l., and had ultidirectors had stated that they had a fund mately made a contract to perform the of half a million for the building of ships, same service for 25,000l., thereby saving and they had made a dividend of 8 per 20,000l. a year. That charge was percent. He had been informed that at this moment the Admiralty had entered into a contract for the Australian service, with a company which had yet to be formed; and which had offered terms so ruinously low that it was impossible for them to be fulfilled. It was essential that the mail service of this country should be efficiently performed; and yet it was said that the Admiralty had entered into a contract with a company which had neither ships nor capital. There were two companies perfectly competent to have taken the contract-the Oriental and Peninsular, and the Screw Company-and yet the Admiralty were said to have selected a company which might or might not be formed. In conclusion, he had only to state that he had received the information which he had laid before the House from persons high in authority in the different companies to which he had referred; and no one would be more gratified than himself if the explanation of the hon. Gentleman opposite should prove satisfactory. The hon. Gentleman concluded with his Motion. MR. COWPER said, that the only objection he had to the Motion of the hon. Gentleman was, that no such documents were in existence. There had been no tender made for 3s. 2d. per mile, and there was, therefore, no agreement, and no contract, consequently the return must be nil. Of course, if the hon. Gentleman liked to move for the returns, the Admiralty would make no objection, for they desired that the most searching inquiry should be made into the whole of the circumstances. The hon. Gentleman had said that he should bring grave charges against the Board of Admiralty; but it appeared that they all amounted to this, namely, that in three cases the Admiralty had made bargains fectly correct. They were on the point of entering into a written agreement for the former sum; but, fortunately, before any formal document had been executed, another party stepped in and signified their wish to tender. The first negotiation was therefore broken off, and the result was a saving of 20,000l. a year to the public. He could speak with confidence and certainty upon this subject, because, since then, it had been brought before a Committee of that House, which had reported in terms of the greatest approbation of the Admiralty's conduct; and it was certainly no great matter of reproach to save 20,000l. per annum. With regard to the Brazilian contract, the lowest tender was accepted, being that of the West India Company. It was true the Screw Steam Packet Company made a proposal and laid a plan for the sevice before the Admiralty; but instead of accepting that proposal at once, they called for tenders, and as the Screw Company did not make the lowest tender, they did not obtain the contract. So far the result was favourable to the practice of the Admiralty. The tender of the West India Company was accepted; but after its acceptance the Company found their vessels were, by age, unable to compete with the more rapid vessels put into those seas by the United States, and that they must go to a large expenditure to procure more efficient vessels of greater power; they made a proposal to the Admiralty for a fresh contract. [Mr. FRENCH: How long after?] In the year 1849. Their proposal was not agreed to, because a Committee of the House of Commons was then sitting on the subject, and it was thought desirable that the whole of this contract should be made the subject of examination before that Committee. Nothing was thus actually done for a year and |