him to do so in future; but it is a work of
great labour-it will occupy a considerable
time, and can only be executed at great
expense. The noble Secretary of State
has ordered that region to be laid open;
and the truth is that the war at the Cape
has come to that point that unless such
a measure is adopted, there can be no
peace in that part of the world-there
can be no enjoyment of the social comforts
of civilised life. The Kafir chieftains at
the head of 10,000 or 20,000 men estab-
lish themselves in these fastnesses within
the boundary of Her Majesty's territory,
and they are not accessible to any
portion of Her Majesty's troops.
I say
then, that such a measure must be adopt-
ed; it will take time, and can only be
effected at great expense; but the effect
would be to give peace, and to enable the
people to enjoy the blessings of social and
civilised life-and the expense would not
be a tenth part of the expense of one
campaign. If this was not done effectu-
ally, there would be no peace and no ces-
sation of armed bodies making inroads
upon the people in that part of the world.
He thought it but fair to say what he had
said of his gallant Friend Sir Harry Smith;
and that it was also right to say that all
which ought to be done had not yet been
done to lay the foundation for that which
was the object of all war, namely, peace.

the difficulties under which they have had to labour, and of the gallantry with which they have overcome all those difficulties, and of the great success which has attended their exertions. My firm belief is, that everything has been done by the commanding general of the forces, and the other officers, in order to carry into execution the instructions of Her Majesty's Government. I have myself had the honour of holding the command of British troops, and superintending different miliary operations in a similar country, under three Governors General of India; and I am proud to say that I have not observed any serious error in the conduct of the whole of these operations of my gallant Friend Sir Harry Smith. He has no doubt committed errors as others have done before him. The operations of the Kafirs have been carried on by the occupation of extensive regions which in some places are called jungle, in others bush, but in reality it is thick-set, the thickest wood that could be found anywhere. The Kafirs having established themselves in these fastnesses, with their plunder, on which they exist, their assailants suffer great losses. They move away with more or less celerity and activity, sometimes losing and sometimes saving their plunder, but they always evacuate these fastnesses. Our troops do not, cannot, occupy these places. They would be useless to them, and, in point of LORD LYNDHURST wished to know fact, they could not live in them. The whether the papers laid on the table on enemy moves off and is attacked again; Tuesday night contained any account of and the consequence is, to my certain the proceedings of the Legislative Council, knowledge, under the last three Govern- the legality of which was discussed at such ments, that some of these fastnesses have length during the last Session of Parliabeen attacked not less than three or four ment? times over, and on every occasion with EARL GREY said, the papers laid on great loss to the assailants. There is a the table contained a full account of the remedy for these evils: when these fast-proceedings. There were two sets of panesses are stormed and captured, they should be totally destroyed. I have had a good deal to do with such guerilla warfare, and the only mode of subduing a country like that, is to open roads into it so as to admit of the transport of troops with the utmost facility. I have recommended that course to the noble Earl (Earl Grey) opposite, who, I believe, has ordered it to be adopted at the Cape. It is absolutely necessary roads should be opened immediately into these fastnesses. The only fault I can find with Sir Harry Smith's operations is, that he has not adopted the plan of opening such roads, after he had attacked and taken possession of those fastnesses. I have, however, instructed

pers laid on the table, one set confined to the circumstances of the war, and the other to measures of legislation. The latter contained all the proceedings of the existing Legislative Council with regard to the body, the legality of which was so much contested by the noble and learned Lord last year. If he referred to those despatches, he would find that the Governor did not call together the Legislative Council until he had completed it to the number of which it previously consisted, and it would continue until the new Parliament came into operation.

LORD LYNDHURST: That body then never was summoned in its reduced state.

EARL GREY: It was never summoned

in its reduced state, and Sir Harry Smith | nation of the present interest of the Court was always desirous of having it, if he of Directors in the revenues and territories could, in its full number. The instruc- of India, and which interest ceases in tions to him required him, in case of his inability to complete the Legislative Council to its original number, to proceed with the reduced number; but if he could produce satisfactory nominations, he was desired to complete it to the increased number.

PRESIDENCY OF THE BOARD OF

CONTROL.

about two years; and, further, he wished for any information which the Government might be enabled to afford respecting the present state of our relations with the Court of Ava, with especial reference to the expedition and hostile operations which were commencing against the port of Ragoon.

COUNTY COURTS.

The EARL of ELLENBOROUGH said, LORD BROUGHAM said, he had to that as the noble Lord the late President of move their Lordships for certain returns the Board of Control (Lord Broughton) had respecting the Court of Chancery, and in retired from office just at the moment doing so he would take that opportunity when his extensive experience would be of of giving notice that on Tuesday next most use to the country, he wished to he would state the course he intended know what Member of the Government to pursue relative to an important Bill was to undertake the duties of the post thus vacated, as he desired to put some questions to the Government relative to the affairs of India?

EARL GREY said, the noble Earl ought to give notice of his questions, and then some Member of the Government would be prepared to answer them. The noble Earl, however, must be aware that it was very common for the President of the Board of Control to be a Member of the other House.

some

which last year received the sanction of their Lordships, and also the sanction of the other House, with alteration, but which Bill was only prevented from passing owing to the late period of the Session when the Commons' Amendments came on for consideration. He alluded to the County Courts Further Extension Bill, which, by the courtesy of their Lordships, had received a first reading last Tuesday. The measure was, in fact, the same measure which their LordThe EARL of ELLENBOROUGH was ships agreed to last year, the alterations aware of that fact, but it was certainly ex- made upon it in the other House not aftraordinary that the moment selected for fecting the principle, but only the modus the late President of the Board of Con- operandi. He would read to their Lordtrol's retirement, should be just when his ships a communication from one of the long official experience would be of most Judges who presided over the County service to the Government in revising the Courts, in which that gentleman, a most powers of the Court of Directors, which learned and able person, expressed his would expire in two years; and it was thankfulness and satisfaction at the benemore extraordinary still that the noble fits derived from the justice administered in Lord should be succeeded by a gentleman those courts. The learned Judge stated from the office of Secretary at War; in that, strongly as he had always been led which situation also great knowledge and to think in favour of the County Courts in experience were necessary, especially when consequence of the reports which he had measures were about to be prepared for heard respecting them, now that he had strengthening the national defences; and seen more nearly the working of the system that Secretary at War, again, was suc- by experience, he was astonished at the ceeded by a civilian, who knew nothing at protection and comfort which they afall about the particular department which forded to the people. He added, that he was appointed to conduct. He would out of the numerous cases which had now, however, give notice that on Tues- come before him, he had met with only one day next he should first ask two questions: bad case of perjury. That was a highly what measures it was the intention of the satisfactory testimony to the good effects Government to take during the Session--and the efficient working of those courts; if they were to take any measures-for and he reckoned his learned Friend singuthe purpose of putting Parliament in pos- larly fortunate in having met with but one session of such information as might ena- case of perjury in the course of his expeble it to legislate with respect to the termi-rience. In all probability his statement

of Law and Equity, for regulating the ordinary proceedings in the Courts of Common Law. He might observe that the Bill dispensed with a great number of forms heretofore necessary, that it simplified every proceeding, and that it removed altogether the consequences of merely technical objections. It also tended to expedite the course of actions at law, and would entirely prevent those delays which occasionally occurred, owing to the technical nature of the proceedings. He might also mention that this Bill was but the first of several others of a similar character that would be laid before their Lordships during the present Session.

was confined to the cases of the parties ex- | founded on the Report of the Commisamined. He had now to move for returns sioners appointed to inquire into the Courts showing the state of business in the country Courts of Bankruptcy, and in doing so he must remind their Lordships of the measure he had introduced in the last Session, having for its object the consolidation of the bankruptcy jurisdiction with the County Courts jurisdiction. The only chance of effecting that consolidation was by not filling up the vacancies in the offices of the Courts of Bankruptcy as they occurred, or, if they were filled up, that the persons who were appointed to them should receive their appointment to such offices upon terms similar to those on which other office-bearers, including the Welsh Judges, had sometimes been appointed, namely, that in case of their accepting the office, they were to have no claim to compensation if it should please Parliament in its wisdom to abolish those offices. He considered that either the vacancies should not be filled up, or, if filled up, it should be in that manner and on those terms. When the returns which he now moved for should be laid upon the table, their Lordships would see that in some of the country Courts of Bankruptcy there really was very little, indeed, of business transacted. It was stated that in some of those Courts a period of two months sometimes elapsed without any meetings being held for despatching business. Whether that representation was well founded or not, he would not undertake to say they would be able to judge when the returns were made; but at the same time they could not always rely on the returns of the number of meetings as affording an indication of the real amount of business transacted, for he knew by what had formerly occurred that it was customary to set down notices of meetings in these Courts when there was little or no business to be brought forward, and the meeting was merely nominal. At all events, the returns for which he moved would furnish much important, and indeed absolutely necessary, information with regard to the country Courts of Bank-bution. What he (Lord Campbell) desired ruptcy.

The Returns moved for by the noble Lord were ordered to be laid before the House.

COMMON LAW PROCEDURE AMEND-
MENT BILL.

The LORD CHANCELLOR begged to lay on their Lordships' table a Bill

a

LORD CAMPBELL expressed his satisfaction at a measure of so important a nature, and from which so much benefit might be anticipated, being laid before their Lordships at that early period. The Commissioners, on whose Report the Bill was said to be framed, were wise men, and rejected the notion that legal proceedings could be entirely divested of their technical character. Formerly there prevailed system of optimism with regard to the common law; now there prevailed a system of pessimism. A notion was abroad that a Judge, like a Turkish Cadi, had nothing to do but to call witnesses before him, examine them, and give his opinion. But doubtless a great number of abuses had crept into the administration of the law, which ought to be and which would be removed, and proceedings would become much more expeditious, much more simple, and much more economical than they had been heretofore. There was one matter in which he took a peculiar interest, and he should be glad to hear from his noble Friend whether any steps were intended to be taken in regard to it. He alluded to the question of fees, the abuses of which had been most enormous, and though the evil was not so great in amount as it formerly was, yet it still existed to a certain degree, and was very unequal in its distri

was, that there should be one fee imposed early in the cause, which would be abundantly sufficient to defray all expenses, and that all the officers connected with the courts of law should be paid by salaries, and not by fees. It was partly a recommendation of the Commissioners that the officers of the courts should be paid by salaries, and not by fees, and it would give

some degree of reputation for last Session, and that in the present Session it would become the law of the land. He was convinced that some measure of this nature must form the foundation of all improvement in the law of real property.

EARL FITZWILLIAM thought that this was a question upon which the greatest deliberation and care ought to be taken before anything could be done. An Act which involved the necessity of registering in a public office every deed relating to property, would be productive of very great inconvenience to those who had dealings in small quantities of land. He did not object to all registration. Far from it. He thought there were great advantages connected with it; but a measure such as was brought forward last year was calculated to impose great expense and inconvenience in the transfer of small properties. He hoped that the Bill would be relieved of that obnoxious provision which exposed to every curious eye the deeds executed by private persons.

that no persons should be allowed to inspect the registry, without producing the original documents. This would effectually prevent these things being exposed to the gaze of the curious.

House adjourned till To-morrow.

Mmmm

HOUSE OF COMMONS,

Thursday, February 5, 1852. MINUTES.] PUBLIC BILL.-1° County Rates.

PUBLIC-HOUSES IN SCOTLAND.

Acts [9 Geo. IV., cap. 58, Public Houses (Scotland); 6 Geo. IV., c. 81, Excise Licences] read.

MR. FORBES MACKENZIE moved that the House resolve itself into Committee of the whole House to consider the laws regulating Public Houses in Scotland, with the view of introducing a Bill on the subject.

MR. HUME thought they should have some reason assigned for this Motion. He

that any such Bill was necessary, and knew nothing of it; but they should have some ground assigned for proposing to disturb all the vested interests, many of them important, by a new measure that would re-establish a monopoly, and make changes very undesirable.

LORD BEAUMONT said, that the Bill of last year had since undergone much dis-had received no instruction from Scotland cussion out of doors, especially in the Ridings of Yorkshire, and he was happy to say that, generally, there was an inclination in favour of registration, and almost all the provisions of the Bill were approved of. One, however, was invariably objected to, an important clause, but one to which there seemed insuperable difficulties-that was the principle of centralisation. Many great authorities were of opinion that the registry of deeds should not be confined to a single office, but that it should be extended throughout the country.

LORD BROUGHAM: It is six of one and a half-a-dozen of the other which plan you adopt.

The LORD CHANCELLOR stated, that the Bill had undergone no change since last year, except the simplification of some of its terms.

EARL FITZWILLIAM repeated his conviction that the measure would be productive of great inconvenience to private persons, by the exposure which it would entail of the deeds and agreements relating to their properties.

The LORD CHANCELLOR would remind the noble Earl, that in consequence of similar objections which had been urged last Session, a clause was introduced into the Bill, which required that all registered documents should be given up to the owner of the property to which they related, and

MR. FORBES MACKENZIE said, this was a mere preliminary step towards the introduction of a Bill. If the hon. Gentleman would wait till he saw the Bill, he (Mr. Mackenzie) thought he would see that there was no intention of establishing a monopoly. A Bill had been passed in the other House last year, which came to that House so late in the Session that it was impossible to pass it into law. He wished only to reintroduce that Bill early into the House, and should propose after the second reading to refer it to a Select Committee competent to deal with this question, from whose deliberations he hoped such a measure would come forth as the House would be satisfied to pass. It was not very agreeable for a Scottish Member to be called upon to state the grounds of this measure in the grievous amount of drunkenness that prevailed in Scotland, and the enormous consumption of whisky by the lower orders of that country. He believed it was acknowledged by everybody who had been there, that it was very desirable some measure checking the facilities for