Amendment and Motion, by leave, with

drawn.

Second Reading deferred till Wednesday, 14th April.

Select Committee appointed

"To inquire into the state of Education in the municipal boroughs of Manchester and Salford, and in the contiguous townships of Broughton, visable to make any further provision, and in Pendleton, and Pendlebury, and whether it is adwhat manner, for the education of the inhabitants within such boroughs and townships."

PHARMACY BILL.

general stock, and leave it to manage its | clude the Committee from going into the education with the introduction of so much question alluded to by the right hon. Genas it pleased of its own peculiar rites and tleman (Mr. M. Milner). tenets. He had never heard any objection to this, but that the professors of the true religion could not consent to take money out of the same bag. [Laughter.] They had no objection to others putting into the bag, but it was matter of conscience to take it all for themselves. Everybody said his was the true religion, and of course everybody's else was false. The ways stated were the only ones which had justice in them; and the present scheme was neither. The scheme was to take money from all religions by a general rate, and then apply it with such mixture of religious teaching as it was known minorities, or portions of them, could not and would not consent to. For example, he would fasten on the case of the Jews which had been instanced. "Had not a Jew eyes, had not a Jew ears?"-but we are for recognising nothing but that he has a purse. The question will never be settled till it is taken up upon principles such as men would accept if applied to themselves. The interest in the question, too, extended far beyond Manchester and Salford; and he should be glad if anything he had said should excite or keep it up.

MR. SLANEY would ask the Committee calmly to consider a suggestion which had been made upon a previous discussion of this subject by the late Solicitor General (Sir W. P. Wood), namely, that if any rate were raised for educational purposes, any party who conscientiously objected to it upon religious grounds, and who could at the same time show that he contributed a fair quota towards the education of the humble people of his own denomination, should be exempt from payment of this rate. This would remove a serious objection that had been made to the scheme.

MR. MILNER GIBSON said, he should not press the latter words of the Amendment if it were understood that the Committee was not thereby precluded from inquiring into the proposal for supporting education by local rates.

The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said, the Amendment, as drawn up by the right hon. Member for Manchester, entirely confined the consideration of the Committee to the system of establishing local rates. The modification proposed by the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State would give them a wider field; and certainly he did not understand it to preVOL. CXIX. [THIRD SERIES.]

Order for Second Reading read.

MR. JACOB BELL presented petitions in favour of the Bill, from the President and Censors of the Royal College of Physicians, London; the President, Vice-Presidents, and Council of the Royal College of Surgeons; one signed by 150 eminent medical practitioners residing in London; and numerous petitions from medical practitioners, chemists, and others, in various parts of the country. He hoped the House would consider the above petitions, especially those from the two colleges and the members of the medical profession, a sufficient answer to the allegation that there was no necessity for a Bill of this nature. It might be laid down as an axiom, that education in any branch connected with the profession of medicine was necessary; and repeated attempts had been made to supply the deficiency in the present law relating to Pharmaceutical Chemists. No doubt could exist as to the propriety of establishing an Examining Board, and ensuring the proper qualification of the members of that body, by means of an examination. Some difference of opinion had existed as to the jurisdiction under which such board should be constituted; and about the years 1839 and 1840, communications took place between the chemists and the several medical bodies on this subject. It was proposed at one time to form a joint board of examiners with the College of Physicians; but after much discussion and consideration this was found to be impracticable, and was abandoned. The College of Surgeons declined to entertain the question; and there were insuperable obstacles to an amalgamation with the Society of Apothecaries. The result of these deliberations, was the establishment of the Pharmaceutical Society, consisting entirely of chemists, as the institution which should

2 R

regulate the education and conduct the bodies. Those who had any experience in examination of the future members of that what is called medical reform must be body. This society, which was incorporated aware that it is a most complicated and by Royal Charter in 1843, was entirely of intricate subject, involving a great variety a voluntary character; its powers did not of interests and prejudices, and it had been extend beyond those who thought proper the studious endeavour of the promoters of to come within its ranks, and only those this Bill to keep it perfectly isolated and young men who desired to distinguish distinct. The medical profession might themselves came forward for examination; legislate independently, and the passing of consequently, the influence of the society this Bill would rather facilitate such legis numerically, on those entering the busi-lation than otherwise. Another objection ness, was small, while the result of the system of education and examination, in the cases of those who availed themselves of it, afforded satisfactory evidence of its efficacy. It was therefore, necessary, in order to extend that beneficial influence, to increase the powers of the society, and for this purpose the Pharmacy Bill was introduced. The Bill confirmed the Charter of the society, with certain modifications, and gave power to make by-laws and other necessary regulations. It then enacted that it would be unlawful for any person to assume the name of Pharmaceutical Chemist, or Chemist and Druggist, &c., unless he had passed the prescribed examination, as a guarantee to the public that he was qualified to perform the responsible duty of dispensing medical prescriptions. There was a clause exempting from interference all persons already engaged in the business, as it would be unjust to make the Act retrospective in its operation. There was another clause, exempting all the medical bodies in the three kingdoms, the provisions of the measure being confined exclusively to chemists and druggists. The penal clauses were not nearly so stringent as those in other Acts of Parliament of a similar nature, as they only went so far as to prevent the public from being imposed upon by unqualified persons, and to recognise and establish a standard of qualification for those who assume the name and profess to be Pharmaceutical Chemists. The Bill was generally supported by the chemists throughout the kingdom, and also by a large proportion of the medical profession. The only opposition which had arisen, was from the Royal College of Surgeons, Edinburgh, and the Faculty of Physicians and Surgeons, Glasgow. The first objection was, that it would obstruct the progress of a general measure for regulating the entire medical profession. This he (Mr. Bell) was prepared to refute, as it was one of the merits of the Bill that it did not interfere in any way with the existing medical and surgical

was, that too much power was vested in the Pharmaceutical Society, and that the by-laws and regulations ought to be under the supervision of the Secretary of State or other officer of the Government. Now this provision had been introduced into the Bill of last Session; but it was omitted in the present Bill, on account of the indisposition of the late Home Secretary to have anything to do with it, under the idea, no doubt, that the question would be involved in the same intricacy as that of medical reform. This, however, was not the case. If it were thought right, the clause which had been expunged could be reintroduced. Another objection was, that the Bill would affect the licentiates of the abovenamed corporations, who have the power of granting licences for general practice, including the practice of pharmacy. This, however, was a misapprehension, as the parties in question would be expressly exempted, and would enjoy all the rights and privileges that they would have possessed if the Bill had not passed. They could not, however, be registered as pharmaceutical chemists under the Bill, as that term was confined to "persons who dispense medical prescriptions and prepare medicines, not being members of the medical profession, or practising under a diploma or licence of a medical or surgical corporate body." These latter words were introduced by the desire of the apothecaries in London, and now he was required to take them out to satisfy the medical practitioners in Scotland. If he were to comply, and confer by the Bill new powers on the two licensing bodies who made the demand, a contention and rivalry would immediately arise between the practitioners in England and the practitioners in Scot land, which would hazard the passing of the Bill. It was necessary to confine the registry to pharmaceutical chemists, to make the institution strictly pharmaceu tical, and to avoid the confusion which would arise if medical chemists, surgical chemists, and pharmaceutical chemists,

MR. BOUVERIE agreed with what had

having different kinds of qualification, were | fore whom the Bill should be sent, would all registered together on one list. In fact, be very careful in the construction of these the charter of incorporation defined the clauses. members to be chemists and druggists; and members of the medical or surgical fallen from the right hon. the Home Seprofession were disqualified for admission cretary. Very grave objections could be as members of the Pharmaceutical Society. stated to the Bill as it now stood. In fact The Society of Apothecaries had fallen it would give a trading monopoly to a into the dilemma of gradually assuming chartered body, of which that House knew the character of medical practitioners, and very little indeed. So far as he could this had led to their abandonment of phar- understand the object of the Bill, it was macy as their primary and principal pur- intended to turn chemists and druggists suit, an example which the Pharmaceutical into apothecaries, and to derive a revenue Society was desirous not to imitate. It for the society by levying large contribuwas needless to discuss more in detail the tions from chemists already in business. minor provisions of the Bill, which would The business now pursued by the chemists be duly considered by a Select Committee, was formerly carried on by the Apothecain the event of the House acceding to theries, also a trading body, to whom an Act Motion of which he had given notice. He of Parliament had given great powers; felt assured that if the Bill should pass, it would, in a few years, raise the character of pharmaceutical chemists. It would oblige all those who regularly follow the business to learn the rudiments of chemistry and the collateral sciences. Among the number some would be found who, by their natural talent and industry, aided by the fundamental education rendered necessary by the Bill, would turn their attention to the higher branches of science, and reflect credit on the country. The majority, however, would confer a benefit on the public in another way, by performing in a more safe and efficient manner the duties of pharmaceutical chemists in the preparation of medicines, many of which are powerful poisons, and ought not to be entrusted in the hands of ignorant and inexperienced persons. He moved that the Bill be read a second time, for the purpose of being referred to a Select Committee.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

MR. WALPOLE, considering the great powers given by the Bill to the Pharmaceutical Society, was not prepared to give his assent to the second reading before the Bill had been referred to a Select Committee. The second clause gave very great and irresponsible powers to the Pharmaceutical Society in making bylaws and regulations; and the fifteenth clause subjected persons to serious penalties for assuming the business of a chemist and druggist, contrary to the regulations so laid down. Very difficult cases might arise on that question, unless the clauses were worded with exceeding care; and he hoped therefore, that the Committee be

and unless great care were taken they would find a fresh crop of medical practitioners springing up among the chemists.

MR. BELL said, that the object of the Bill was diametrically opposed to that stated by the hon. Member, and was about to explain further, but being called to order, he resumed his seat.

SIR HENRY WILLOUGHBY said, he trusted that the House would have an opportunity of discussing the Bill after it should have come from the Committee. Bill read 2°, and committed.

PROPERTY QUALIFICATION. MR. TUFNELL begged to move for leave to bring in a Bill to abolish the Property Qualification for Members of Parliament. The House would perhaps remember that, in the course of last Session, he took occasion to give notice of his intention to bring the subject under the notice of that House. His noble Friend the Member for the City of London (Lord John Russell) had, however, subsequently made it the subject of one of the Clauses of the Bill for the reform of the representation, which he had introduced; but as that measure had been withdrawn, he now took the earliest opportunity of again bringing the question before the notice of the House; and if there was no objection to the introduction of the Bill, he would waive all discussion of the subject till the second reading.

MR. WALPOLE said, he would not offer any opposition to the introduction of the measure of the right hon. Gentleman, inasmuch as it had constituted a portion of the Bill of the noble Lord the Member for London, to the introduction of which no

Foreign Affairs-The {LORDS} Argentine Confederation, &c. 1224

opposition had been offered, and of which | variety of other things; but it should also measure it was not the most important portion. He must reserve to himself, however, the full right of dealing with the Bill hereafter, and be understood as not pledging the Government on the subject one way or the other.