House adjourned till To-morrow. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Thursday, February 12, 1852. Tuscan Government will not refuse redress. | forming me that the policeman concerned When I am laying down this rule, and in the affair has been punished-and further stating my belief that nations should be- that the Austrian Government repeatedly have to others as they would wish others to expresses its regrets that it has occurred, do to them-without making the slightest and acknowledges the justice of the deconcessions where their honour or their mand for a reparation. For these reasons good faith is at stake, yet feeling it to be I am inclined to believe, which I do with incumbent on them when they are in the great pleasure, that these sad small matwrong to make the fullest acknowledgment ters will not again occur, or that, if they -I may be permitted to add, that Ia m not do occur which is perhaps unavoidastating of foreign nations what I do not bly the case-they will be met on both think applies to our own. And I venture sides in such a manner as to render it unto remark to your Lordships, that one thing necessary to make demands which it is painin which I certainly take pride to myself, ful for the Minister of one Government to during the short time I have held the seals write, irritating to the Minister of anoof the Foreign Office, is, that I have been ther to receive, and which lead to recriable to make, in the name of Her Majesty's minations, as I believe, entirely beneath Government, an apology where I think an the dignity of the Governments of the two apology was justly due. An unfortunate countries concerned, who, though they may circumstance recently happened through differ widely in the spirit and form of their the neglect of his instructions on the part internal administration, have still the same of an English naval officer and a civil ser- common objects in view, in regard to great vant-an insult was offered to the United and important interests committed to their States. The noble Lord whom I succeeded charge. began friendly communications with the Government of the United States on the subject through the Minister residing here; but I had the satisfaction, on the day after receiving the official account of the occurrence, of writing in the name of Her Majesty's Government, disavowing the act of violence, and regretting that such an act had been committed. And I do not hesitate to say that I should have pursued precisely the same course, if, instead of the United States, it had been a weak and feeble nation that had been injured; because it is the only one consistent with the dignity and with the just pride of this nation. Some allusion has been made to the Aus- BALLOT FOR NOTICES-RULES OF THE trian Government being behind the Tuscan Government in the present case. Now, I SIR JOHN PAKINGTON begged leave cannot but say that there has lately been, to call the attention of the right hon. the on the part of the Austrian Government, Speaker, as well as that of the House, to some negligence in checking the insults the position in which he unexpectedly found and petty persecutions committed towards himself placed at that moment by the omisBritish subjects by its subordinate agents.sion, though he was sure most unintenI certainly trust this will not be continued, and I have some ground for saying it; for one of the first steps I was compelled to take on entering upon my present office was, on learning that an Englishman charged with despatches for Sir Stratford Can-repeated. ning had been seized and exposed to insult, MR. SPEAKER said, that if the hon. to demand satisfaction for that outrage on Baronet wished to give notice of a Motion, international law and usage; and I am he should write it down on paper and also happy to say that I have received an an- his name, for every Member was responswer from the Austrian Government, not sible for his own name appearing upon the containing, I think, a good explanation of notice paper. If the clerk wrote down the the occurrence, but at the same time in-name of the Member upon such paper, it Earl Granville MINUTES.] NEW MEMBERS SWORN.-Right Hon. Robert Vernon Smith, for Northampton; Admiral Houston Stewart, for Greenwich. PUBLIC BILLS.-1° Tenant Right (Ireland); Parliamentary Representation; Corrupt Practices at Elections; Pharmacy; Protection from Dangerous Animals; Improvement of Towns (Ireland); Friendly Societies; Passengers Act Amendment. HOUSE. tentional, of the clerk at the table. He had given instructions to the clerk to put his name in the glass when the ballot took place for Motions; but under this circumstance he would move that the ballot be should be considered merely as an act of courtesy upon his part. was subject to an unexpected disadvantage to which no Member of that House should be exposed. He would now give notice that he would postpone to that day fortnight his Motion in respect to the Sugar Duties. On Wednesday next he gave notice of his intention to move for the appointment of a Select Committee to inquire into the present system of Punishing Juvenile Criminals, and to consider the propriety of making some arrangement SIR JOHN PAKINGTON thought he was placed in a most unfair position. It was no doubt desirable that the rules of the House should be observed. He believed it was the constant practice of Members to walk up to the clerk and to request him to add their names to the list in the usual way. He (Sir J. Pakington) had uniformly proceeded in that way. He did not believe that he had ever done other-which would combine industrial training wise. In this case he had received the with the adequate punishment. distinct promise of the clerk, and he would Subject dropped. remind the clerk that at the same time he informed him (Sir J. Pakington) that it would be irregular for him to put more than one notice on the paper. He therefore put in only one notice, and he now requested the right hon. (the Speaker), when the names of those balloting had been called over, that he would be kind enough to call upon the clerk for the second notice. It was clear that the omission was accidental; but he submitted that he should not be placed in this position. The ballot should be fairly carried out, and he therefore moved that it be repeated. PRESERVED MEATS (NAVY). move "That a Select Committee be appointed to in quire into the Contracts, and the mode of making them, for the supply of Meat Provisions for the use of Her Majesty's Navy during the years 1847, 1848, 1849, 1850, and 1851; into the causes which have led to the receiving into the Government Stores, and to the issuing for the use of Her Majesty's Ships on Foreign Service, certain preserved meats, which have proved to be unfit for human food; and into the means by which an occurrence so prejudicial to the Public Service may most effectually be prevented." LORD JOHN RUSSELL said, that Mr. | The matter to which his Motion related Speaker had explained that the rule of the was one that had caused a painful sensaHouse was, that each Member should tion; and he regretted that it had not dewrite down his own name when handing involved on some Member better able than his notice to be balloted for. The hon. himself to do it justice and to arrest the atGentleman had then no great ground for tention of the House. He could only procomplaint, as the omission was his own. It mise to confine himself as much as possible was obvious that the clerk might have to the subject. Incidents, in themselves other business to attend to at the same time somewhat startling, frequently attracted a these notices were being handed in. It vast increase of attention, and caused a would, therefore, be unjust to make the great degree of excitement from the parclerk responsible in such matters. He ticular periods at which they happened; would, however, admit that some inconve- and the present case appeared to him to nience was suffered on the present occasion be exactly one of that kind. At no period, by the hon. Baronet. There would be he believed, had it been of more imporsome advantage in the hon. Baronet call-tance to the country that every branch of ing attention to the matter, because hon. Members will in future see that they will be responsible for putting down their own names. SIR JOHN PAKINGTON said, that if that was the sense of the House in regard to its rules he was ready to bow to it, and to submit with the greatest deference to the opinion of the right hon. Gentleman in the chair. He, however, felt that he had not been well treated. He did not know what the practice of others was, but he did not remember any one instance in which he had ever written his own name upon the paper. He therefore considered that he our naval establishments should be in a state of efficiency; and it was, he felt satisfied, almost an universal opinion, not only that upon the efficiency of that great service depended the safety and security of this country, but that it was an element second to none in importance for the maintenance of European peace. At such a moment as this the incidents to which his Motion had reference had happened, and he was convinced that no delay could be permitted in bringing the influence of Parliament to bear on the subject, so that a searching inquiry should be made into the circumstances. In proportion as it was desirable beginning of 1849. It was of importance to know what those steps were; hon. Members were not in possession of that information. It was of importance to know by whom those condemnations were made, and where they were made; what blame was supposed to attach to the authorities, and what to the contractor. It was absolutely necessary that the House should be made acquainted with the events which he brought under their notice, and that the facts should be ascertained-that they should understand what took place at the end of 1848, and what had been done in 1849 to remedy the evil. The House were not informed on any of those matters. But in 1850 they were told a large contract was made; and the House would be surprised to learn, that the person with whom the contract was that confidence should be felt in the naval force of the country, exactly in that proportion it seemed to him that mistrust existed; and in making that remark he thought he was justified, for a day did not pass without his hearing animadversions on the doings of the Admiralty. And even the hon. Baronet who moved the Address to Her Majesty only last week (Sir R. Bulkeley) appeared to feel the force of such opinions, when he spoke in somewhat such terms as these, that he believed the Navy was in an efficient state, whatever might be said on that point by disappointed admirais. He was not one of those who blamed the Admiralty for trying to make desirable changes in the food of the Navy. He thought, indeed, that it was their duty to do so. He was no disappointed admiral; he had no connexion with the service; he had no motive for try-made in that case, as in the former, was ing to cast undeserved blame on any one connected with the administration of naval affairs; and he could assure hon. Members that all his private feelings ran in an entirely different direction. Without further preface he approached the consideration of the points which he thought should be embraced in the inquiry he sought to have instituted. The leading point would comprise all the circumstances of the contracts entered into with Mr. Goldner ? Mr. Goldner was an individual who, it appeared, had obtained a patent for preserved meats for seagoing vessels as early as 1840. In 1844 it would appear the first experiment was made with those meats in Her Majesty's service. In 1845, he believed the first contract was made with Mr. Goldner. The preserved meats having been used in small quantities experimentally, were, in 1846, used in still larger quantities; but it was not till 1847 that the preserved meats were adopted as an article for general issue to ships on foreign service. In 1847 also, he understood, contracts were made with Mr. Goldner. But it was stated in a document which had been commented on by the press as a document of authority, that towards the end of 1848 complaints were addressed to the Admiralty, and reports made, from which it appeared that condemnations had taken place in respect of preserved meats, other than those common to salted provisionsthat parts of animals unfit for use, and other substances, were found mixed with the meats contracted for. It was stated that immediate steps were taken to remedy the evil in the end of 1848, and the Sir W. Jolliffe There was Mr. Goldner. One did not see how that at the arsenal at Portsmouth, and in the Clarence-yard, they were met by the authorities of the place, the parochial authorities, the magistrates, and called upon to interfere in consequence of the stench arising from the store where those meats were kept, which they said was not only horrible, but was endangering the lives of those who lived in the locality. At a time when our shores were teeming with foreigners, when the great naval arsenal at Portsmouth had more attractions than any other place for visitors, would it be believed that there existed a pestilential store, as he was informed, in the heart of that great establishment, which caused the ance of the whole contract, or in due proportion of that sum for a part only; and the letter must contain a reference to some person or persons well acquainted with the sufficiency of the parties so offering to become bound; and persons in partnership with the contractor or with each other would not be accepted as sureties. At all events, the House would see from an inquiry what was subsequently done by the Admiralty. In the end of 1850, also, it appeared that there were complaints with reference to the preserved meats supplied by the Admiralty; but from all that could be learned it appeared that the whole of the preserved meats received under the contracts with Goldner in 1850, were re-greatest possible alarm to the people of ceived in store, and served out to Her Majesty's seagoing ships; and not only so, in 1851 a very large additional contract was made, and Goldner was again the successful competitor. But Sir, the year 1851 brought matters to a climax with Goldner's contracts. It appeared that on the delivery of the very first parcels under the contract of that year, parts of animals not proper for the purpose, and other substances, were found mixed with the meats; and the parcels, amounting to 22,325 lbs. weight, were at once rejected. In the next paragraph of the document to which he had already referred, they were told that the contract was at once cancelled. In his opinion, if the contract of 1851 was couched in the same terms as the contract of 1850, it would be a question for inquiry how far the forfeiture had been carried out in strict conformity with the terms of the contract. He could not see that the Admiralty had any course to follow except to adhere to the terms which they had laid down. Who were the persons that in 1851 became securities for the contractor? He was led to advert, in the next place, to a matter with respect to which the statements he had heard were not made on authority; but, meagre and incomplete as the information he had might be, it was the same information which had been before the public for a long period, uncontradicted and unexplained. What was the state of matters towards the middle of 1851 ? He was told that in 1851 the contractor had withdrawn 2,000 canisters of his contract of 1850. It was desirable that information should be afforded with reference to that circumstance. He was informed that on the 14th of August, 1851, when the Board of Admiralty was on an excursion of inspection the adjoining district? There could be no doubt that in August, 1851, those stores were not such as could be distributed with safety to Her Majesty's Navy; yet one did not learn why an examination was not immediately proceeded with, whether on account of the heat of the weather or any other cause. It was not until winter that an inspection was heard of; and hon. Members were made painfully aware from the public prints, day by day, what were the results of the inspection then instituted. He did not wish to enter into details. Hon. Members knew, as he knew, what was said of the horrible substances which were mixed with the preserved meats. They knew that the inspection was compelled to be delayed day by day, because it was feared that the lives of the persons who acted as inspectors would be sacrificed. There were apprehensions that pestilence would break out at Portsmouth. The condemned meats were consigned to the sea. He did not wish to travel one atom beyond what was currently reported. He did not find fault with the Admiralty on account of the contract into which they had entered for a supply of preserved meats; but he did blame them because the meats were atrociously bad and corrupt. He had seen and heard enough to convince him that it was perfectly possible to supply the Navy with meats to which no objection could be made, and that such meats could be supplied by contractors well known in this country, in Ireland, in Scotland, and in Australia. There was an accidental confirmation of the view he took of the blame which attached to the department under whose administration these incidents had occurred; and such evidence was often stronger and more satisfactory than any other in a case of were, he feared that the chance of their safety was but small. The Investigator and the Enterprise had, he believed, been two winters in the Arctic regions. Now, it was of importance that the Admiralty should inform the House whether or not they, too, were supplied with Mr. Goldner's provisions. In 1849 the North Star deposited cases of provisions at Navy Board Inlet, and subsequently Captain Sir James Ross deposited a large supply at another place. What sort of provisions were they? Several exploring ships also went to the North Sea in search of Franklin, in 1850, and had since returned. He alluded to Captain Austin's squadron-the Resolute, the Assistance, Pioneer, and the Intrepid. He had had the satisfaction of learning that in their case the stores had turned out serviceable, and that upon reaching England, and being inspected, they were pronounced perfectly good. He was told that there had already been a sufficient exposure of the management of the provision contracts; but he begged to say that the public at large, as well as the Naval service, entertained very strong doubts upon that head, and whether under other contracts the same maladministration might not take place. It became his duty, then, not to shrink from asking the House to institute an inquiry upon the subject. If the result of inquiry were to show that everything had been done according to Parliamentary routine, then they would see that what had been done was abortive, and that some new system must be adopted. In conclusion, he called upon the House to grant him an inquiry, and so vindicate the this kind. Hon. Members had not access to official documents, and he would not bring forward anything surreptitiously obtained. But he had received testimony to the quality of Australian preserved meats. When our ships were in that distant part of the world, they were supplied from the manufactories in Australia. Captain Yule, of Her Majesty's ship Rattlesnake, spoke of the Australian preserved meats as very far superior to those which had been put on board that ship. The Australian meats were described as being excellent in quality, and were preferred to the meats supplied in England. It appeared, therefore, that Her Majesty's ships at the Antipodes had a great advantage in being so far removed from those whose duty it was to watch over their supplies at home. He had seen it stated that 8,000 canisters had been examined; but he took the lowest estimate, which was that 6,378 canisters had been examined; of these 5,408 were condemned as bad, and consigned to the sea, and only 910 were serviceable. Now, could a worse state of things exist, and did not those facts confirm the report that the state of Clarence-yard, Gosport, was most horrible and dangerous to the health of the people around it? He hoped a satisfactory answer would be obtained from the Government; but at the same time he did not mean to say that any statement from the Minister could supply the place of a Parliamentary inquiry. He thought that on the score of humanity some explanation ought to have been given, long ago, of the gross imposition which had been practised on the Government. He approached a painful part of the sub-character which hon. Members sometimes ject, to which he would advert, in the hope of obtaining a satisfactory explanation from the Admiralty. In 1851 it was understood that orders were sent out to discontinue the use of those provisions and to return them to store; but when they reflected that our fleet was scattered all over the world, in the Atlantic, the Pacific, the Indian Ocean, and the Arctic Seas, it must be obvious that the ships, if supplied with these meats, must have been exposed to great suffering. What he wanted to know, therefore, was, what steps had been taken to mitigate the disadvantages which must occur on the different stations from the supply of this abominable stuff? He should be glad to know, also, if the ships employed in Sir John Franklin's Arctic Expedition had been supplied with preserved meats by Mr. Goldner? If they Sir W. Jolliffe claimed for the House of being the guardians of the public purse, and at the same time prove themselves the protectors of a service upon which our national greatness had hitherto depended, and upon which he believed, under the blessing of God, it must till continue to depend. The hon. Baronet then moved that a Select Committee be appointed. COLONEL CHATTERTON seconded the Motion. SIR FRANCIS BARING (who was imperfectly heard), was understood to say that, so far from objecting to the Motion of the hon. Baronet, he would give the Committee what they asked for, with the sincerest pleasure, not only on the grounds stated, but on account of many things which had been stated elsewhere; because he was anxious that they might be brought |