the Government in bringing such a measure forward. In regard to railway legislation in Ireland, he held that the Government was scarcely justified in proposing any great difference between it and the railway legislation for England, unless there was a clear expression of opinion on the part of Irish Members themselves that that diversity of law was required and justified by the circumstances of the case. Where such an expression of opinion existed, the Government had never shown any disposition to act on it. Last Session he had proposed and carried through the House a measure, represented to be necessary, regulating the power of purchasing land for railways. He certainly should not oppose any plan of extending railways merely because it was different from what was acted on in this country. He, therefore, rejoiced that the measure had been brought forward, and hoped it would be the means of eliciting public opinion in Ireland. He had not had the advantage of seeing the Bill, and therefore he did not wish to commit himself to its details, which would require to be carefully considered, particularly the question of appropriation. He hoped the measure would be fairly considered in Ireland; and should it receive the general assent of those interested in the extension of railway communication in that country-and every Irish proprietor ought to consider himself so interestedhe would render every assistance in maturing the measure and promoting its success. COLONEL DUNNE believed that the feeling of the Irish Members generally was in favour of this Bill, though he, for one, did not wish to commit himself on details. With regard to what the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Labouchere) had said, that no Grand Juries had signified their assent to the principle of the measure, the reason of that was, that no assizes had been held since the question was mooted; but if the second reading was fixed at a reasonable period, the Grand Juries would have met in the interim, and the Government would then have the advantage of knowing their opinions. MR. FITZSTEPHEN FRENCH gave his hearty assent to the principle of the Bill. It was his belief that the counties would be fully compensated by the returns of the railways. There was a case in this country, of the river Weaver, in Cheshire, the receipts from which went in reduction of the county rates. There was no attempt Mr. Labouchere on the part of the Government to develop the resources of Ireland by means of railways. It was most desirable that there should be a railway communication between Belfast and the west of Ireland. Belfast wanted flax, while his constituents wanted a market for flax, as the difficulties in the way of its transport at present made it not worth the growing. He trusted, therefore, that when the Bill was fairly before them, the right hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade would convert his present non-opposition into strenuous support. He believed that sufficient money could be easily raised under the proposed plan to carry it into effect. MR. GROGAN was glad that the professions of friendship to Ireland, which had been so often made by Her Majesty's Government, and which had been so long barren, were now likely to be productive in the way of not opposing, at least, a Bill that promised to be of the highest utility to that country. If the Grand Juries of Ireland were willing to tax themselves and their fellow ratepayers for the construction of railways, he thought it was not asking too much of Her Majesty's Government that they should support a measure of legislation that was calculated to enable them to do so. Leave given. Bill ordered to be brought in by Mr. M'Cullagh and Mr. Wyndham Goold. SALE OF BEER. SIR JOHN PAKINGTON said, his object in rising was to request permission from the House to bring in now precisely the same Bill which he introduced at the close of last Session. He must therefore move that the House resolve itself into Committee in point of form, as this Bill related to the affairs of the Exchequer. He sought by this Bill to extend the provisions of an Act, passed some years before, with the addition of some new provisions regarding the police, and other matters. The Bill upon the whole was founded on the Report of a Committee of the other House of Parliament, which sat upon the subject in 1849 and 1850, and the evidence taken by that Committee would afford abundant proof, if any were required, of the very serious evils which had arisen in all parts of the country out of the present state of the law with regard to the sale of beer. Complaints on the subject had been so generally and so loudly expressed, both out of doors and by petitions to that House, that although there might be some difference of opinion as to the provisions of the measure, he was disposed to hope that little or no difference of opinion would exist as to the necessity of some legislation on the subject. MR. SCHOLEFIELD was sorry that the Bill was the same as last year, because he believed that the provisions of that Bill would have been exceedingly injurious in certain parts of the country, and particularly in his own district. If the measure had applied only to the agricultural districts, he would have offered no opposition, because it might be that abuses. existed there; but he believed that with regard to large towns, the provisions of the Bill were not necessary, while he had every reason to believe they were likely to inflict serious injury. He hoped, therefore, the hon. Gentleman would give ample time for the consideration of the measure. MR. EWART feared that the morality of the people was not to be promoted by Acts of Parliament. He knew that the beersellers of the metropolis, who were a most respectable set of men, had a strong feeling on the subject, and he hoped, therefore, the hon. Gentleman would not press his measure without giving all parties an opportunity to be heard. MR. AGLIONBY agreed with the hon. Member who had last spoken that laws could not make people moral, but yet they might alter those laws which had a tendency to promote immorality. For his own part, however, he should have been better pleased if the hon. Baronet (Sir J. Pakington) had turned his attention to secure a good system of rural police, rather than reverting to the old system of magisterial licences. MR. MITCHELL was not very well acquainted with the provisions of the hon. Baronet's measure, but if it were intended to place beershops on the same footing as public-houses, he would give it his most strenuous opposition, because he believed the effect of that system was to give the large brewers a practical monopoly that enabled them to make great fortunes at the expense of the people. MR. SLANEY said, he must express a hope that his hon. Friend (Sir J. Pakington) would endeavour to apply such a remedy to the evils of which he complained as would not raise the price of the article of life in question. The Gentlemen who spoke so frequently of the immorality occasioned by beershops would do a great deal to diminish the mischief which they deplored, if they would afford some opportunities of amusement to the labouring population. He only mentioned this be cause he had seen the great advantages which resulted from such opportunities. He had great faith in his hon. Friend with respect to this matter, and therefore he should be ready to give him all the assistance which he could. "Resolved-That this House will immediately resolve itself into a Committee to consider the Laws relating to the sale of Beer." House in Committee; Mr. Cornewall Lewis in the chair. "Resolved-That the Chairman be directed to move the House for leave to bring in a Bill to alter and amend the Laws relating to the Sale of Beer." House resumed. Resolution reported. MR. KERSHAW hoped that the hon. Member for Droitwich would state what was the principle of the Bill which he was abont to introduce. SIR JOHN PAKINGTON said, that the Bill was the same as that brought in last Session, and as the hon. Gentleman would find it in the library, he did not think he should be justified in taking up the time of the House by further reference to it. He might, however, be permitted to say, with regard to the observation made by the hon. Member for Birmingham (Mr. Scholefield), that the Bill was prospective only, and he might add that some of the loudest complaints came from the most populous towns. had not made any report, nor had come to | any decision, he believed that a great deal of good had arisen from the inquiry, and that some improvements had been made by the Board of Customs themselves in conseqence of that inquiry. The Motion was agreed to. ENFRANCHISEMENT OF COPYHOLDS. MR. AGLIONBY, in moving for leave to bring in a Bill to effect the compulsory enfranchisement of lands of copyhold and customary tenure, said, that he considered he should best consult the feelings of the House by shortly stating what had been done on this subject. The House would recollect that his own Bill of last Session, and that of the hon. Member for Cirencester (Mr. Mullings), had both been referred to a Select Committee, and it was a remarkable fact that that Committee never had a division. They unanimously agreed to a Report, and had instructed him to prepare and to present a Bill in accordance with it. A Bill accordingly was framed, but on account of the lateness of the Session he was requested by the House to withdraw it, and reintroduce it this Session. It had been printed and circulated during the recess, and he now asked leave to reintroduce it as printed, without the alteration of a single word. He would explain the principles of the Bill on the second reading. Leave given. Bill ordered to be brought in by Mr. Aglionby and Mr. Mullings. Bill read 1°. desire expressed by our beloved Queen, "That the youth of this country should be religiously brought up, the rights of conscience being respected." The funds for that purpose were to be provided by local rates, to be administered by the town councils of Manchester and Salford, or Committees to be appointed by them. He believed that there was some difference of opinion as to whether the Act would carry out the intentions of its promoters; but those differences were not such that they could not be met by the insertion of certain clauses House to allow the Bill to go into Comin the Bill. He, therefore, asked the mittee, that it might be fairly considered in all its provisions, and any difference that existed might then be arranged. It was certainly very much to the credit of the ratepayers of these two large boroughs, that they had desired the education of the people to be immediately undertaken, and that they were willing to tax themselves by a local rate, in order that a fair experiment might be made on this important subject. The Bill was generally acceptable to the ratepayers of the two boroughs, for petitions had been presented to that House from the three townships comprised in the Bill, signed by the majority of the ratepayers, not only in number, but also, he believed, in regard to the amount of assessment. The petition from Manchester was signed by 27,596 persons, that from Salford by 6,392, and that from Broughton by 2,396; the residence and amount of assessment of each person being in every case appended to his signature. The House adjourned at a quarter before For his own part, he avowed that his own Ten o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Wednesday, February 11, 1852. MINUTES.] NEW MEMBER SWORN.-Right Hon. Fox Maule, for Perth. PUBLIC BILLS-1° London (City) Improvements; Sale of Beer; County Rates and Expenditure. MANCHESTER AND SALFORD EDUCATION BILL. Order for Second Reading read. MR. BROTHERTON, in moving the Second Reading of this Bill, said, that its object was to provide a free education for the poor inhabitants of the boroughs of Manchester and Salford; and so far as those boroughs were concerned, to carry out the predilection was in favour of a secular scheme of education that should not infringe upon the rights and consciences of any. But we must take mankind as they are; and when all classes in Manchester had united to form a Bill, and had made mutual concessions, with a view to the promotion of the great question of the education of the poorer classes, he felt it was the duty of all to be willing to make concessions, in order that this great object might be accomplished. With regard to particular scruples as to religious teaching, he felt very much disposed to give way, rather than permit the further continuance of that street instruction which led to poverty, misery, and crime. When, therefore, he balanced these considerations, he thought that great good might be effected by carrying out this Bill. He preferred it, in the present state of public feeling, to a general measure, for he was sure that it would be extremely difficult to frame such a measure as would be equally applicable to the agricultural and manufacturing districts. It was from a feeling of that difficulty that it had been desired that the towns of Manchester and Salford should, as an experiment, unite for this laudable purpose; and he hoped that if the Bill underwent the investigation of a fair Committee, they would form such a measure as would give general satisfaction, and would fully protect the rights of conscience of all. MR. W. BROWN, in seconding the Motion, said, that he was very desirous to see this Bill sent to a Committee upstairs, because he thought that a good deal of valuable evidence would be elicited, and that even if this Bill did not pass during the present Session, the investigation would put the Government in possession of much information, which would be of great value to the Prime Minister in the preparation of the general measure of education, which he had announced his intention of introducing next year. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read a Second Time." in a subsequent Session, than that this Bill should become law during the present year. He should feel very great difficulty, whatever his own private opinions upon this measure might be, in opposing its being considered by a Private Bill Committee; because when a respectable body of men came to Parliament with a measure, asking to have the advantage of their judicial inquiry-for private legislation now came under that description-he thought that there must be some very strong and special reasons shown, before the House would be justified in refusing their request. He could, however, show a special reason for the Amendment which he was about to propose. He wished the House to agree to the postponement of the Bill, because, while on the one hand, he should be unwilling to throw any unnecessary impediment in the way of the ratepayers, or any portion of them, having their proposal considered by a Committee; on the other hand, he desired that all who were entitled to be heard in opposition, had equal favour shown to them, and that nothing was done precipitately, so as to deprive the corporationthe representative of the whole body of the ratepayers-of the opportunity of being heard, if it so pleased them, in opposition. MR. MILNER GIBSON said, that he to this Bill, and which would be the effect thought the hon. Member for Salford (Mr. of their reading it a second time. He was Brotherton) had given a somewhat too informed that the corporation were about highly coloured description of the amount to meet, on the 18th instant, to take the of support which the Bill had received in measure into consideration; and as by the Manchester. It was perfectly true that Standing Orders of the House any person the Bill was supported by a large body of petitioning against a private Bill, and dethe ratepayers paying upon a very con- siring to be heard in opposition before a siderable assessment, and also that it was Select Committee, must present his petipromoted by gentlemen whose opinions tion within seven clear days of the second are entitled to great consideration and de- reading of the Bill, if the corporation of ference; but it was not correct to say that Manchester should decide at their meeting the Bill was supported by the whole of to oppose the Bill, they would be deprived the inhabitants of Manchester. [Mr. BRO- of the opportunity of being heard if the THERTON: I did not say so.] He had un- House proceeded to read the Bill immederstood his hon. Friend to say, that the diately. This measure was of infinite imBill was supported generally by the in- portance to the future welfare, peace, and habitants of the borough. However, up harmony of the whole of the inhabitants of to this moment, he, as the representative Manchester; and he was quite sure that a of Manchester, had received no intimation Committee of that House would feel themwhatever of the course which the corpora- selves in a most unfortunate position if, by tion of Manchester, the legitimate repre- any hasty reading of this Bill a second sentative of that great body of the rate- time, they were to be deprived of the oppayers, was prepared to take upon this oc-portunity of hearing the views of the corcasion. Indeed, the hon. Member for South Lancashire (Mr. W. Brown) appeared rather to contemplate referring the Bill to a Committee upstairs, with the view of supplying the Government with information on which a measure might be founded poration upon it. Without, therefore, going into the principle of the measure, or stating any opinion whatever upon it, he would upon this ground move that the second reading of the Bill be postponed for a fortnight. the 66 Amendment proposed to leave out the neral system of secular education through word "now," and at the end of the Ques- the country; but he thought that the tion to add the words, " upon Wednesday minds of the people were by no means the 25th day of this instant February. made up upon that scheme; though many Question proposed, "That the word of the supporters of this Bill were in favour 'now' stand part of the Question." of that system. But what was felt in Manchester was, that if this measure was rejected until the question of national education was settled, Manchester might be left for years in uncertainty upon a question on which its mind was made up, and the mass of its population might remain uneducated. In Manchester, taking the schools of all denominations, there was at present accommodation for 62,000 scholars. By this Bill it was proposed that the present managers of these schools should still continue to manage them; except that they should not be allowed to teach the dogmas of their own religion to the children of any inhabitant who objected to such instruction being combined with the general secular and religious instruction which these schools would in future be bound to furnish to all. Upon this subject there had been much discussion; several plans to meet the religious objections of various denominations had been submitted to the Committee who had prepared the Bill, and who had ultimately come to the conclusion that while the provisions of this Bill would afford education to all, the conscientious scruples of no religious body could be offended; and he thought that no one who read the Bill would hesitate to come to the same conclusion. Then there came a clause enacting that if the establishment of any further schools were required out of the rates, the Scriptures should be read in them. as there was accommodation in the existing schools for 62,000 children, but by no means that number of scholars, he did not think that this provision, which would offend the scruples of the Roman Catholics, was likely to come into operation. At any rate, it was a question for a Committee of the House to decide whether that clause should be inserted or not. This measure being one in which the religious feelings of every class in the community had been consulted, it had been supported by the bishop, the dean, the whole of the clergymen of the Church of England in Manchester, and the great majority of the Dissenting Ministers; and although the Roman Catholics objected to the provision which he had just mentioned, they felt, that the benefits of the measure would be so great as regarded their present schools, that he believed they MR. WILSON PATTEN said, it was his intention to support the Bill, not only so far as the technical forms of the House were concerned, but also upon its merits. He felt bound to say a few words on the subject, as he had taken charge of this particular department of the private business of the House. With respect to what had fallen from the right hon. Member for Manchester (Mr. M. Gibson), as to the propriety of postponing this Bill for a fortnight, because the corporation of Manchester had not had an opportunity of expressing their opinion upon its merits, he was in a position to state to the House that this Bill had been under discussion in Manchester for now more than two years, and that during that period it had formed a prominent subject of discussion in the newspapers of every party. Its nature had, therefore, been fully known in Manchester for many months, and it was therefore in power of any party in that borough to take the proper steps for opposing it in Parliament if they were so disposed. But he strongly suspected that the reason why the corporation of Manchester had not presented any petition against the Bill was, that there was no very great objection to the Bill on the part of the corporation collectively, though there might be on the part of some of its Members. For every party in that town, whatever might be their opinions, looked with great approbation upon those who had brought forward this Bill, and who had for two years bestowed great pains and labour upon its preparation. There could be no necessity for postponing the second reading upon the grounds stated by the right hon. Member for Manchester, because no doubt the Bill would be opposed in Committee, and any feeling which might be entertained upon the subject by the corporation of Manchester would receive the greatest attention from them in a matter in which that body were so vitally interested. With regard to the merits of the Bill, he must say, there was no subject which had created such a strong feeling in the county he had the honour to represent (Lancashire) as that of education, which had been discussed in every part of the county for several years. Thero was a party who wished to establish a ge But |