165 The Queen's Speech— in regard to the extension of the suffrage. | them any share in making the laws by In his opinions respecting the franchise, which they are governed? Younger men he (Mr. Hume) hoped that the noble Lord than he was might live to witness changes (Lord John Russell) coincided. He, for in their commercial system that would one, desired no more than what the hon. bring back a period equally lamentable Baronet had stated was in his opinion a and injurious to the working classes as the desirable extension. He was sorry, how- years 1842 and 1843. Let the noble Lord ever, that the hon. Mover objected to a now prepare for the storm by giving to every measure which he (Mr. Hume) considered individual who contributes to the poor-rates necessary to put an end to bribery and and pays direct taxes, and can be recogWithout protection to the nised as a taxed householder, privileges corruption. voter, the extension of the suffrage would that will distinguish him from the vagrants which every person who have no stake in the country. Let purpose not answer the anxious for the prosperity of the country the noble Lord enlist under the banners of should desire. He was sorry to see that a the constitution those who are now exlarge class of influential and rich men did cluded from any portion of the representanot give that support to the extension of tion. Let the noble Lord take one of the It was great manufactories in Leeds or Manchesthe suffrage that they should do. possible that many persons might suppose ter, where 400 or 500 skilled artisans are that he (Mr. Hume) and others went too employed, and he will find that scarcely Could it be expected that an indifar; they might be afraid of overturning one man in a hundred of that class has a that constitution which had stood so many vote. trials, and which, he trusted, would stand vidual so situated, when the time came, still greater trials, if necessary; but he would take an interest in supporting their (Mr. Hume) felt convinced that every pro- institutions? Promises had been made to prietor of property, and every individual them in other matters which were not who desired to see peace maintained in the carried out; but he hoped that in this case country, ought to take measures while con- there would be a just extension of the tentment existed in the country to do that suffrage, and due protection given to the which is just and right to the working and voter in the exercise of it. He hoped to middle classes of the country, and not wait obtain from the noble Lord much more until it was demanded by the force of pub- than he had foreshadowed, for it was prolic opinion. Those who contributed to the tection against the mob that was wanted, taxes ought to be placed in a situation as well as protection against the rich. He where they would have a share in the must express his regret that the proenactment of those laws and the granting mises which had been held out that the of those taxes that are necessary for the colonial system was to be changed, and existence of the State. He dreaded the self-government given to the different coloconsequences that might occur if a mass nies, were not fulfilled. The Session of discontented artisans should by any passed over; there was an Order in Counpossibility, under a change of circum-cil with regard to the Cape, and everystances, be deprived of employment. He thing he could wish had passed the remembered what had occurred in 1842 and 1843, when half a million or three quarters of a million were driven out of work. To what did they direct their attention? Immediately to the defects of Looking to the the public institutions. conduct of those classes during the Exhibition of the Crystal Palace, was it fair and just to say that men who could conduct themselves with so much propriety were not entitled to have the suffrage, or to be placed in their proper position as citizens of the State? At present they were without a voice in the representation; and what interest could they have in a Government that gave them no share of power, but took the money from their pockets, and expended it without giving House; but what was the use of its passing G 2 duce some paragraph in the Speech pro- | And why were they not allowed? Because mising the reform which in former years it the Colonial Secretary refused to do so. was stated should be granted. They should The consequence was that the Kafir War also have had a paragraph in the Speech would not only take away the whole of recommending the carrying out of free their surplus revenue, but they would be trade. He admitted that the agricultural obliged to levy fresh taxes. They should interest had grounds for complaint, not be- get rid of that war, if it were only for the cause they had protection taken from them, purpose of being ready in case of an but because, when protection was taken emergency elsewhere. He must repeat from them, they had a right to expect the the expression of his disappointment at the removal of protection from all classes. measure which the noble Lord had allowed That had not been done. He recommended the Colonial Secretary to carry out. He hon. Members to look to the returns laid saw no chance of a change of policy, and upon the table of the House last Session, only saw a prospect of the continuation of which showed all the protective duties that an expense that would drain the country of remain. It would be seen that upwards of its resources. With respect to another 400,000l. a year were still levied as pro- question that had been referred to, namely, tective duties, inconsistently with the pledge their position with respect to France. that had been made by Sir Robert Peel, What, he asked, had they to do with the and the statement of the noble Lord him- French people and the French Government, self. All these restrictions ought to be re- except to maintain the peace, amity, and moved, and the landed interest ought to good feeling that has existed between the have all the benefits they were entitled to. two countries? What could drive many He considered the continuance of the in- people to entertain an idea that France come and property tax as the means by was about to invade this country after the which Her Majesty's Government would be kindly and friendly intercourse that had enabled to remove all this protection. The taken place last year in consequence of income and property tax, properly levied, the Exhibition here, and the reception and not as heretofore, unjustly and un- of the English in Paris? What had fairly, were necessary to enable the Go- arisen to create alarm? There was a vernment to remove the restrictions on large number of persons who lived by the manufactures, and to place them on the supply of necessaries for the Army and same footing as the agricultural interest. Navy, and it was on that account attempts He looked upon the removal of all restric- were made to persuade the people that an tions upon the commerce of this country, invasion was likely to take place. He both agricultural and manufacturing, as of hoped there would be no increased charge vital importance to the welfare of the for military purposes, and no such charge country. He could assure the noble Lord would be necessary if the Army and Navy that he would not carry out the wishes and were properly reformed. He had no hesiplans of Sir Robert Peel, or his own pro- tation in saying that the military force of mises, if he did not take measures for the the country was fully sufficient. There removal of the restrictions that exist upon was a return showing that 185,000 men in many articles. The country gentlemen and arms, not including the Navy, were supplied owners of property in this country would with clothing from the Ordnance Departhave to pay their share of the expense of ment. Before they had agreed to an in100,000l. or 200,000l. a day for continuing creased expenditure of a farthing, he would the war in Kafraria. When he (Mr. Hume) like to see the reforms adopted which the proposed, last year, to give the inhabitants noble Lord and his colleagues had recomof that colony the management of their mended, but had never carried out. own affairs, the noble Lord at the head of Duke of Wellington, it was said, opposed the Government replied to him that he did all changes; but was he to continue not think it right to grant them a constitu- those abuses in the Army which ten years tion until the war in Kafraria was at an ago he had condemned? They should not end. In what position were they now? be terrified by bugbears. He would not It was said they must send 10,000 men to believe that the President of the French the Cape, and they might send 20,000 men people, after the experience he had acthere, and not succeed in consequence of quired in England, did not value, and their mode of proceeding. They must em- would not adopt, every means in his ploy the inhabitants of the Cape, who were to preserve the alliance with England. The ready to assist them if they were allowed. statement of the noble Lord, that the Mr. Hume The power Government of this country feel nothing | wished to make one or two remarks on a in common with those alarmists, would, matter which had been alluded to by his he hoped, reach him. With regard to hon. Friend the Member for Montrose. what appeared about the President in the He had no desire to offer any criticisms on English press, he (Mr. Hume) would only the ornaments of the House, or on the arsay that no man had been more abused by rangements for the accommodation of the the press than he (Mr. Hume); but when Members; but he thought it right to menhe was right he ultimately prevailed, and tion the fact that one of those heavy canif he were wrong, the sooner it was known delabra which were suspended from the the better. Let every man act that way, ceiling of the House a short time previous and they never need be afraid of the press. to the chair being taken by Mr. Speaker, He hoped that Louis Napoleon would look fell down upon and went through the floor. upon the press as a body of men having a It would be rather awkward if any one of particular trade to carry on, and particular them were to fall during the sitting of the objects in view, and that they did not re- House, and he thought some guarantee present popular opinion in this country in should be given that those things should any way to sway public affairs. He was be properly fitted. He begged also to point satisfied it was the interest of England out that the hon. Member for Cavan was and of France to be at peace, and where now sitting on a spot where the lamps it was their mutual interest to be at peace leaked, and he would certainly advise the there could be no danger of war. It ap- hon. Member to move, if not to the Treapeared from a return upon the table of the sury bench, at least to some other part of House that there were 31 ships of war the House. While on this subject he in the Mediterranean, 26 on the coast of would advert to another point that deAfrica, 25 in India, and 15 in the Pacific served the immediate attention of the Ocean, and let them be compared to the House-he meant the ventilation of the proportion of vessels possessed by the building. Upwards of 200,000l. had been United States, and consider also the pro- spent upon the ventilation of the House tection she gave to her commerce. The of Commons and the House of Lords, and United States gave protection to their how were they situated now with regard to trade with one-tenth of the number of ships that point? Why, Dr. Reid informed him which this country employed for the same (Mr. Osborne) last night, that the quarrel purpose. Let those ships be used if neces- which had been going on five years besary, but while the country had that fine tween him and Mr. Barry was not yet setfleet it should not be put to any additional tled, and he further stated, that unless he expense. He was glad to hear the noble were allowed to have the entire charge of Lord did not anticipate any increase in the that House no settlement would ever be regular army. There was to be some pro- effected. Those two gentlemen by their posal made respecting the militia, but he disputes had completely defeated the efforts might not have properly understood the of the Committees which had sat on this noble Lord. He had followed the noble subject; and, great as were the talents of Lord in favour of civil and religious liberty the noble Lord the Chief Commissioner of since he had entered that House, and Works and Buildings, he (Mr. Osborne) would be sorry to part company, but the doubted whether he would be able to ternoble Lord had been too dilatory of late, minate the disagreements between those and had not had the courage to carry out two scientific personages. Under the cirhis own resolutions; he had therefore lost cumstances, therefore, he certainly felt the support of the Reformers. The noble disposed to move that Dr. Reid should be Lord would never be turned out of office called to the bar of the House, and be reby the Protectionists or Tories, but might quested to give some explanation upon the lose his post by Reformers not giving the subject. That was the only way in which support which would otherwise be given. the House could effectually take up the He, therefore, counselled the noble Lord question. They might go on spending the to take an active, energetic, vigorous public money year after year, and endancourse, and the noble Lord would have no gering the lives of many valuable men who cause to complain. were arrived at a stage of life which would not allow them to bear with the heat that prevailed in that House. In his opinion the House was most defectively constructed in respect of ventilation. It was Dr. MR. BERNAL OSBORNE said, as many opportunities for discussing colonial affairs would occur, he should not at present say a word on the subject; but he Reid's wish to be called to the bar of the House to be examined on the subject, and he hoped that course would be adopted. Captain FITZROY suggested to his hon. Friend the substitution of a Committee to inquire into the warming and ventilating of the House, for the examination of Dr. Reid at the bar, for they would only get an exparte statement from that gentleman, and would not be in a position to recommend what should be done. Every Gentleman, he thought, could testify to the intolerable state of the House attendant on the stench and puffs of alternate hot and cold air which prevailed, and which composed an atmosphere that was unbearable, and this too at the commencement of a Session which was likely to be long, and occupied with protracted discussions. Such a state of things required investigation, and he would again suggest to his hon. and gallant Friend to withdraw his proposition to call Dr. Reid to the bar of the House, and give a notice of Motion for the appointment of a Committee to inquire into the warming and ventilation of the House, which he (Capt. Fitzroy) would himself have proposed, but would now leave in the hands of his hon. and gallant Friend. Most certainly some steps should be taken in the matter; and if his hon. Friend did not give notice of a Motion for a Committee, he (Captain Fitzroy) would move for one. LORD SEYMOUR said, no object would be gained by calling Dr. Reid to the bar, and it would be better to have a Committee, which would be able to ascertain what was required, and decide on what should be done. Hon. Gentlemen should remember that they had themselves determined that the House should be ventilated by Dr. Reid, while the rest of the arrangements of the building, including lighting, were left in the hands of Mr. Barry. The conflict between these gentlemen had caused some confusion, and the House was suffering in consequence. Many of the alterations, however, which had been proposed last year had been only lately carried out, and the ventilation was not yet brought to full perfection, so that it could not be said to have had a fair trial. He thought the best course would be the appointment of a Com mittee. MR. FITZROY asked whether the noble Lord would move for the appointment of a Committee? LORD SEYMOUR said, he should have no objection to do so. MR. HUME did not think any benefit would result from the appointment of a Committee. There had been several Committees already, and they had done no service, and another Committee would, in his opinion, be equally useless. Address agreed to:-To be presented by Privy Councillors. Adjourned at half after Six o'clock. HOUSE OF LORDS, Thursday, February 5, 1852, MINUTES.] PUBLIC BILLS.-1' Municipal Corporation Acts Amendment; Common Law Procedure Amendment; Secretary of Bankrupts Office Abolition. IRISH SPECIAL COMMISSION. The MARQUESS of WESTMEATH, seeing a Member of Her Majesty's Government opposite, wished to call the noble Lord's attention to the very fearful state of affairs now existing in the north of Ireland. Her Majesty's Government were by that time aware of the termination of the trials which had taken place in pursuance of a Special Commission, and he thought they were rather in a dilemma with regard to the result. Because either the issuing of the Special Commission, and the steps taken to put those individuals on their trial-and who were not found guilty-was a mistake altogether, or the representation made that the powers of the existing law would be sufficient for the suppression of crime and outrage, were not warranted by the state of the facts. He wished to know whether her Majesty's Government meant to take any new view of the subject; because either these individuals had been improperly brought to trial, or a strengthening of the existing powers was absolutely necessary. EARL GREY said, that he understood the noble Lord's question, whether, in consequence of the failure of convictions before the Special Commission, the Government proposed to introduce any measure for the alteration of the law. He could only say that the proceedings of that Special Commission had but just been furnished to him, and since then he had had no opportunity of communicating with the Secretary of State for the Home Department, and it was not possible therefore that any decision could be come to as yet. REFORM OF THE COURT OF CHANCERY. LORD LYNDHURST said, he had a question to put to the noble and learned Lord on the woolsack, relative to the notice which had been given by the Government in the other House that a Bill for the reform of the Court of Chancery would be introduced into that House on Monday week. He wished to know if that Bill would be founded on the Report of the Commission, and, if so, whether it was intended that the Bill should carry into full and complete effect the recommendations of the Commissioners? The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that the notice in question, he apprehended, applied to a Bill which would be framed undoubtedly on the Report of the Commissioners to which his noble and learned Friend alluded. Until he had seen the Bill drawn out in full, he could not venture to say whether he should feel authorised to recommend its adoption in its entirety. Having considered the Report as far as a limited opportunity would allow (for the document had only been signed a few days ago, and its contents were very voluminous), he had no doubt that the Bill to be introduced into the other House would carry out in detail the whole or so much of the reforms as were recommended in the first Report. But the first Report did not extend to the whole matter; it embraced the proceedings of the Court of Chancery, but not the jurisdiction, the Commissioners having reserved to themselves to make a further report as to the jurisdiction. He had found the labours of the Commissioners so wide, that if he were to wait for their Report before any measure was prepared, he might cause some disappointment as to the period of the Session when it would be introduced; and therefore he had caused a Bill to be prepared which appeared to him of very great importance, and which he was quite sure would not interfere with anything which the Commissioners might recommend. His Bill would be brought in on Friday; and the Bill referred to in the noble and learned Lord's question would be introduced in the other House on Monday week, and he could state would be based on the Report of the Commission. LORD BROUGHAM rejoiced at the intended introduction of the two measures mentioned by the noble and learned Lord on the woolsack for carrying into effect a great portion of the recommendations of the Commissioners. Nothing more important could be laid before Parliament than a measure or measures of that kind; and in the recommendation of the Report he most entirely concurred, with one exception on a point on which it ought to have been more distinct. He could not see how the Bill supplied means of keeping down the arrears in the Court of Chancery. He certainly could have wished that the Report had gone somewhat further; but as to the direction in which it proceeded, and the particular recommendations as far as they went, they had his complete, unhesitating, and cordial concurrence. HER MAJESTY'S ANSWER TO THE ADDRESS. THE LORD STEWARD OF THE HOUSEHOLD (the MARQUESS of WESTMINSTER) informed their Lordships that he had waited on Her Majesty on behalf of their Lordships' House to present the Address which their Lordships had adopted in answer to the Speech from the Throne on Tuesday. The Address was most graciously received by Her Majesty, who returned the following answer to their Lordships: "I thank you for your loyal and dutiful Address. "It will at all Times be My earnest Desire to cooperate with you in Measures calculated to promote the Prosperity and Happiness of My People." THE KAFIR WAR. The DUKE of WELLINGTON: My Lords, I was unable to address your Lordships two nights ago, when you voted the Address to Her Majesty, to which She has returned the gracious answer which we have just heard read. The Motion now before you is, that the Address be entered on the Journals of the House; and I wish to avail myself of this opportunity of expressing my sense of the services of General Sir Harry Smith, now in command of Her Majesty's troops at the Cape of Good Hope. Sir Harry Smith is an officer who, from his high reputation in the service, ought not to require any commendation from me; but having filled a high command in several important military operations long before, carried on under his direction, and having now been recalled by Her Majesty's Government, it is but justice to him to say that I, who am his commanding officer, though at a great distance, entirely approve of all his operations, of all the orders which he has given to his troops, and of the arrangements which he has made for their success, prove of the conduct of the troops in all their operations; I am fully sensible of I highly ap |