-(Mr. Whitwell.)

MR. O'SHAUGHNESSY asked whether, if the Amendment were put, it would afterwards be competent for him to move the reduction of the Vote by a further sum?

THE CHAIRMAN, in reply, said, that he would be quite in Order.

MAJOR NOLAN quite understood that the Amendment of the hon. Member for Kendal (Mr. Whitwell) was merely nominal. The Cattle Plague Act had only just got into working in Ireland; but a great deal of good was being done, and he could not understand why the hon. Member should advocate inspection on the English instead of on the Irish side of the Channel. Last winter he (Major Nolan) visited several places in England where cattle were disembarked. Formerly, they were unshipped, and left to stand about in open places, very often in the wet, before they could be put into the trains; but the railway people told him that they had not half so much to do, or half so much trouble, that the cattle were at once put on the trains, and were far more comfortable. He had no objection to English inspection as well; but he could not understand why the inspection could not be done just as well in Ireland, and certainly it took place under far more favourable circumstances. He would heartily support the hon. Member in any attempt to improve and perfect the inspection in Ireland; but if he attempted to remove it, he certainly should oppose him, for any such attempt he should regard merely as an effort to revive Protection in disguise.

MR. PERCY WYNDHAM said, whether the present inspection was satisfactory or not he would not say; but it was certain that the moment the English inspection was removed, there was a great importation of disease into that part of the country. He did not wonder that the hon. Member opposite (Mr. Whitwell) had brought forward this subject; for his county, considering its size, contained more valuable cattle than any other in England. In his opinion, the present inspection was not sufficient, and he would heartily support any Motion for increasing the number of Inspectors.

M'GAREL-HOGG trusted the Committee would continue the present system; for, in his opinion, the system of inspection at the port of embarkation was by far the most satisfactory. SIR WALTER B. BARTTELOT thought there should be no difference of opinion amongst the Committee that inspection ought to be thoroughly and properly carried out. Considering the present depressed state of agriculture, there was certainly one thing against which the farmers should have protection, and that was the importation of disease. They, none of them, he believed, objected to the inspection in Ireland, and, for his part, he was decidedly of opinion that it ought to be made there; but he did wish to impress upon his right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary for Ireland the importance and the absolute necessity of making the inspection both sufficient and efficient. If disease had come into the North of England from Ireland, the inspection certainly could not be sufficient and efficient now, and he wanted his right hon. Friend to promise them that it would be made so in the future.

MR. O'SHAUGHNESSY understood that some very suitable accommodation was offered for the shipping of cattle at Waterford, and if those offers had been accepted, they certainly would not have had these complaints about Milford Haven. He should like to know whether the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary for Ireland had availed himself of this offer from Waterford, which was now one of the most important ports for the shipment of cattle in Ireland?

MR. J. LOWTHER explained that the Act had only been in operation a few months, and, it could not, therefore, be a matter of surprise if the machinery was not at present quite in working order; but, certainly, until he heard the observations of the hon. Gentleman the Member for Kendal (Mr. Whitwell), he was entirely unaware of the existence of these complaints with regard to the importation of disease. He could not ascertain that any reports or complaints had reached the English Veterinary Office, and certainly none had reached his own; but he would certainly give the matter his immediate attention. He believed the point as to the inspection at the various ports was already being inquired into.

MR. CLARE READ was very glad the attention of his right hon. Friend

had been called to the matter, for he remembered perfectly well that it was the opinion of the Committees which inquired into the Cattle Diseases Acts that the Irish Veterinary Department, some years ago, was both undermanned and underpaid. He saw that there had been a very considerable increase in the number of Inspectors; but if the inspection in Ireland was to be of any use at all, it must be very much better than it had been in previous years. He believed that, as a rule, veterinary surgeons did not abound in Ireland, and that a good many had been imported from England;

but he had also heard that one or two young vets who had gone over there were so badly paid that they were obliged to come back.

MR. SHAW believed that the inspection at the ports was very efficient; but in the country districts it was very difficult to get Inspectors, from the want of knowledge of diseases of animals which prevailed. He would suggest to the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary for Ireland that he should make the Irish Veterinary Department a teaching Department. At present, there was no school of veterinary teaching whatever in Ireland. In the County of Cork they were trying to do something in connection with the medical schools which the Government were going to establish, in order to teach veterinary science to the farmers. A very few thousands a-year would establish a school of veterinary science, for the county gentlemen were quite ready to come forward with a supplementary grant. He did not believe the Government could spend money more usefully, and they would also prevent the shipment of diseased cattle. Very often, he believed, such cattle were sent to the port through pure ignorance of what was the matter with them on the part of their owners.

MR. WHITWELL said, he did not wish to press his Motion; but he might say that he was well acquainted with this subject, and was sure that if it were investigated by the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary for Ireland, he would come to the same opinion upon it as he (Mr. Whitwell) had done.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again.”—(Mr. O'Shaughnessy.)

MR. J. LOWTHER hoped the hon. and learned Member would not strive to postpone the Vote. It was an annual Vote, and he was not aware of any new matter that had arisen in connection with it. As he had heard no arguments in favour of reporting Progress, he really could not consent to the Motion.

MR. O'SHAUGHNESSY declined to withdraw the Motion.

MR. MITCHELL HENRY observed, that some Votes following this would also require considerable discussion. Everyone who knew the hon. and learned Member for Limerick (Mr. O'Shaughnessy) was aware that he never took objections unless they were well-founded, and for the purpose of obtaining proper criticism. The Chief Secretary for Ireland had now, in effect, classed the hon. and learned Member amongst those who wilfully obstructed Business; and, therefore, he should support his hon. and learned Friend in his opposition to going further. He thought the time had come when the Committee was well justified in reporting Progress.

MR. O'SHAUGHNESSY was firm in his wish to report Progress. He made the Motion for the purpose of recalling the attention of the Committee to the fact that on a previous occasion the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary for Ireland, while objecting to the

general terms of a Motion he (Mr. O'Shaughnessy) had brought forward, had stated that it was the intention of the Government to place in that House, in the hands of a responsible Minister, all Irish matters connected with the Treasury. That was a most important subject, and his Motion was to remind the Chief Secretary for Ireland of his promise.

MR. J. LOWTHER said, he had no wish to carry on the discussion, and that if the House was not in a humour to proceed with the Estimates, he did not wish to press them to do so. He must, however, take exception to what had been stated by the hon. and learned Member for Limerick. What he originally said had no reference whatever to the Vote before the Committee, but referred to the Vote for the Office of Works. If, however, the hon. Gentleman the Member for Galway (Mr. Mitchell Henry), and other hon. Members, wished to raise a serious discussion on this and the succeeding Votes, he should have no objection to reporting Progress.

SIR ANDREW LUSK hoped that the Committee would not proceed further with Supply that night, as they had already been engaged upon it for seven hours, and he thought it was a very fair proposition that Progress should be then reported.

MR. J. LOWTHER said, he acceded to the proposition to report Progress; but he only wished now to take the Vote for the Registrar General's Office, which was unopposed.

SUMMARY JURISDICTION BILL. [BILL 69-138.]

(Mr. Secretary Cross, Mr. Attorney General, Mr. Solicitor General, Sir Matthew Ridley.) COMMITTEE. [Progress 9th May.] Bill considered in Committee. (In the Committee.)

Supplemental Provisions.

Clauses 22 to 27, inclusive, agreed to, and added to the Bill.

Clause 28 (Cost of prosecution of indictable offences dealt with summarily). MR. PAGET moved, as an Amendment, in page 16, line 30, to leave out all after "section' "" to " shillings," inclusive, in line 32. MR. ASSHETON CROSS assented to the Amendment.

Amendment agreed to; words struck out accordingly.

Clause, as amended, agreed to, and added to the Bill.

Clause 29 (Power of the Lord Chancellor to make rules).

MR. HICKS begged to move that the clause be struck out. It appeared to him

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

(16.) £13,109, to complete the sum for the Registrar General's Office, Ireland.

(17.) £18,596, to complete the sum for the Valuation and Boundary Survey, Ireland.

House resumed.

morrow;

day.

of Parliament, and hon. Members should