Mr. Henderson, the Chief Constable of Leeds, was asked— clause might be inserted closing publichouses altogether on the day of Election. By such means you would secure all the advantages I desire to obtain, and, at the same time, most materially lessen in every constituency both the intemperance and the very gross form of bribery which now prevails to a very serious extent. I have now to consider very briefly the objections which have been taken to this proposal. They appear to be two, and two only. The first-and, of course, the most serious one is the fear that if the hours were greatly extended rioting or disturbance would result. Now, I am bound to say that the evidence on this subject is entirely conflicting. You have, on the one hand, the Chief Constable of Glasgow expressing no fear whatever of disturbance; you have the Mayor of Birmingham stating a similar thing in reply to a question addressed to him; you have the Mayor of Sunderland declaring that at the last School Board election in January, when the hours of polling were from 12 to 7, no disturbance took place, and he is strongly in favour of an extension. The Provost of Perth is of opinion that the extension of the hours of polling would lead to no bad effect; because, in his opinion, the greatest excitement occurs during the hour preceding the declaration of the poll. The Lord Provost of Edinburgh is of opinion that, without danger to the peace of the city, there might be an extension of the hours of polling. Those Mayors who take opposite views do not give any ground for their opinion; and, in many cases, their opinion amounts to the vaguest possible anticipation. In my opinion, rioting is almost a thing of the past; that since the establishment of the Ballot disturbances have become less frequent, and shortly will die out altogether. In my opinion, the present system is more conducive to rioting than anything that can be substituted. Mr. Jackson, the Chief Constable of Sheffield, was asked— "Do you think that if the Parliamentary Election should fall in the winter, and if the hours were from 8 o'clock in the morning till 8 o'clock in the evening, and the poll were declared the next day, there would be any danger at all to the peace in your borough ?" and in answer he said "I am not so sure about that; but I think there would be many inconveniences in keeping the poll open in the dark," "From your past experience, would you have any reason to fear that any disturbance would take place which would lead to jeopardizing the safety of the ballot-boxes?" and he replied— "I can only repeat my last answer-that up to the present time I have seen no reason to think that any such danger would arise; but in the event of any great excitement, I can see that the difficulty of conveying the ballot-boxes through such districts as we have in Leeds would be very great indeed." Again, Mr. Henderson was asked— At the last General Election in Sheffield, when I contested the borough with the present junior Member, there was, undoubtedly, very considerable excitement, and great crowds assembled in the street; but the Chief Constable says there was no rioting, only a little horseplay. The playfulness of the people consisted in throwing at my Friend and myself brick-bats and old brushes-and, what was worse than all, a dead cat. Still, I believe, with the Chief Constable, that there was nothing like serious disturbance. What was the state of the case? The poll was continued until 4 o'clock in the afternoon, the declaration of the poll was made at midnight, and during the whole of that time the town was in a state of considerable excitement. That, in itself, is likely to bring about disturbance; because, under the present arrangement, you have the most exciting event of the whole election-the declaration of the pollmade known just in the small hours of the night. If the present Bill is passed, it will necessitate the postponement of the declaration of the poll until the next day, when it might be made about 10 o'clock in the morning, and it would be made, I have no doubt, in perfect quiet. We may speak with some certainty about this matter of disturbance, because we have considerable experience concerning it. Evidence was given to the Committee by Mr. Hagger, Vestry Clerk in Liverpool, who said that the last vestry poll was kept open until 8 o'clock at night; and, in his opinion, objection whatever to the principle of the measure. Under these circumstances, I may claim his support for the second reading of this Bill; and, as I have previously stated, the promoters will be willing to accept any Amendment the Government might make with the view of meeting the circumstances of small boroughs. I hope we may all assist to remedy the present evil, and that we may be enabled to remove the existing restrictions, which are not only undesirable in themselves, but especially undesirable in this-that they affect one class only of the community, that class being the largest. I move the second reading of the Bill. the result of that was that the number | extended, there is no doubt it would be of persons who voted doubled those who possible to very materially reduce the voted at any previous election. Then, number of polling stations, and, conagain, we have still more important ex- sequently, reduce the expense. These perience that of the London School are the only objections I have been able Board. The last was a very exciting to find against the present measure, and election, which largely interested the I think they disappear in the face of the working classes, and a very much larger evidence before us. In conclusion, I number of persons polled at that elec- venture to hope that, although the Under tion than polled at the previous Parlia- Secretary appeared to oppose any alteramentary Election. The poll was taken tion in Committee, I may, nevertheless, on a November day, in a London fog, have the support of the Government on and in gas-light; and, in spite of all the present occasion. The Chancellor these circumstances, there was not the of the Exchequer stated, when this subslightest disturbance, or even apprehen-ject was last discussed, that he had no sion of disturbance. I cannot see, under these circumstances, how the objection, which is taken by some of the official representatives, can have the slightest foundation. The second objection is, that any alteration of the law of the kind proposed would increase the expense. Sir Joseph Heron thinks that if the hours of polling are extended, it would be necessary to employ relays of polling clerks. Again, I may appeal to the experience of the London School Board election. It has not been found necessary in London to employ relays of clerks, and to use this objection appears perfectly ridiculous. There is no merchant's or business man's office in which the clerks do not occasionally-for instance, when making up the booksattend for a period of at least 10 hours; and I am sure there would be no difficulty in finding plenty of persons willing to undertake the work under the altered conditions. Neither do I think it would be necessary to increase the remuneration; for, at the present time, the payment to the polling clerks is not exactly proportioned to the amount of work performed. From my own experience, I am confident that it would be perfectly possible to obtain a sufficient number of clerks even if the hours were extended until 8 o'clock at night. I believe, however, that if the proposed extension of hours takes place, there will be a corresponding reduction in many items of expense. Under the present system there is an unnecessary multiplication of the number of polling stations. In Birmingham we have no less than 180 polling stations, and the Returning Officers' expenses amount to £1,500. Notwithstanding that we have so many stations, we find that at the dinner-hour our polling accommodation is not sufficient; but if the hours were Mr. Chamberlain Motion made, and Question proposed, time."-(Mr. Chamberlain.) "That the Bill be now read a second MR. ASSHETON, in moving the Amendment of which he had given Notice-that the Bill be read a second time that day three months-said, that as regarded small boroughs the hon. Member, as it seemed to him, did not intend to press his Bill. He would thank the hon. Member for the reference which he had made to Clitheroe. No doubt, the electors were well polled at the last Election. He had been reminded that there was a Petition from that borough in favour of the Bill. He had obtained possession of it, and would present it in the course of the afternoon. Referring to the heading of it, he found that the words, "the inhabitants of the borough.” had been struck out, and the words, members of the Liberal Club," had been inserted in their stead. He did not know whether the Committee on Petitions would receive the Petition. It was obvious that the attempt to get up the Petition of the people of Clitheroe had failed, and that the promoters had been obliged, in the last resort, to go down to the Liberal Club to get the necessary signatures. On looking at the back of the Bill itself, he found it was specially patronized by some of the most eminent rising Liberals of that House. He did not say that it was a revolutionary measure; but, on the contrary, he condemned it as a re-actionary measure, tending to revive some of the worst usages of the dark ages by lengthening the hours of polling. Such a Bill was fraught with the most dangerous consequences, and was quite uncalled for by the circumstances of the present time. Members opposite appeared to regard this as a Party measure; but, so far as it could be regarded as a measure to facilitate the recording of votes, it was not Liberal, any more than it was Conservative in its object, the Conservative Members being as much dependent for their seats on the votes of the working classes as were the Liberal Members. In the old days, there was no limit whatever to the time at which the poll should be kept open, though he supposed it was allowed to close at some time or other; but in 1785 an Act was passed-25 Geo. III., c. 84-providing that- 66 Every poll should be duly proceeded in from day to day, Sundays excepted, until it shall be finished, but so that no poll shall continue open more than 15 days at most;" was afterwards appointed to inquire into the subject, and it recommended that those should be the hours adopted for the Metropolis. An Act was passed in 1878 giving effect to that recommendation; but there had not been an election in any one of the Metropolitan boroughs since then, so they could not look for any assistance from the experience of these boroughs in determining what line ought to be pursued at the present moment; but, however, they might hope to receive some little help from the experience of the School Boards. Twenty only out of 71 School Boards had tried hours of polling different from the normal ones of 9 to 4; but very few had tried as late as 8 o'clock. Brighton had tried later hours than 9 to 4, but never kept the poll open until 8 o'clock, and had since returned to the old hours of from 9 to 4; and Salford tried from 12 to 7 in 1873, but there had been no contest since. In point of fact, there had been little experience in keeping polls open until a late hour beyond that afforded by School Board elections in the Metropolis. As appears by the Appendix of the Report of the Committee of 1877, the Town Clerk of Salford said that the arrangement by which the poll was kept open until 7 o'clock was found to work admirably, inasmuch as it afforded a better opportunity for the working classes to record their votes. Leeds had tried from 1 to 8, but had returned to 9 to 4. The Town Clerk of Birmingham said that from 9 o'clock to 4 o'clock had been found the most convenient hours for polling; and he also said— "It has been represented that hours in the evening would be a convenience to working men; but the elections are held in the short days of the year, and it is important that the poll should take place during the hours of daylight." but that period was, by the Act 9 Geo. IV. cut down to nine days, and by 2 Will. IV. to two days. Since that time other changes had been made, limiting the period to one day, and fixing the hours in England, in boroughs from 8 A.M. to 4 P.M., and in counties from 8 A.M. to 5 P.M., and he believed the were similar in Scotland and Ireland. The promoters of this Bill now proposed to extend those hours from 8 A.M. to 8 P.M. The constant tendency of modern legislation in these days of expeditious That opinion he (Mr. Assheton) comtravelling had been to shorten the hours mended to the hon. Member for Birmingof polling; and although this Bill would ham. Another Committee of the House only give four additional hours for that of Commons sat in 1878 to consider the process, still it sought to insert the thin whole question, and the concluding paraend of the wedge, and it went in a retro-graphs of the Report of that Committee grade direction-at which he was a little surprised, considering the quarter in which it originated. In 1877 the hon. Baronet the Member for Chelsea (Sir Charles W. Dilke) brought forward a proposal to make the hours of polling in the Metropolis from 8 to 8. A Committee were conclusive against this Bill; and they suggested that as the question did not press for an immediate solution it should stand over until the time-not very far distant-arrived for considering whether the Ballot Act should be continued. The hon. Member for Birming ham was prepared to confine his Bill to the large boroughs, and altogether to abandon the small boroughs. MR. CHAMBERLAIN explained, that he did not abandon the small boroughs, but left himself as to them in the hands of the House. back of the present Bill, which went in for a dull, uniform system, wholly irrespective of the varying circumstances of different places. It was easy to get up Petitions, either for or against a particular measure. In the course of his communication with an Association who were opposed to this Bill, he had inquired whether they had any Petition against it, and was told that they would get up one if he liked, on which he said that he was not sure whether it was necessary, but that he would let them know. MR. ASSHETON said, it was not very easy to draw a hard-and-fast line in such a matter between the large and the small boroughs; but, in his opinion, the evils of keeping the poll open till 8 at night would be much greater in the small than in the large boroughs. He could not understand why the working men of this country were to be put to no inconvenience or pecuniary loss by attending to vote. There was no Member of that House that was not put to some inconvenience by attending to his duties; and Mr. Speaker was obliged to take a hasty dinner on four days every week for six months, in order to allow him to attend to his political duties. What were the reasons advanced for the Bill? The main reason was that working men and business men had, under the present system, some difficulty in recording their votes. Hon. Members on this and the other side of the House approached the question, in one substantial particular, from a very different point of view. He looked upon the franchise as a trust, while many Gentlemen opposite looked upon it as a right. Looking upon it as a trust, he naturally wished that those who were likely to discharge the trust to the benefit of the community at large should have full opportunity of doing so; but if there were any who were really unfit to have the trust reposed in them, then it was no very great hardship that they should be excluded. If people were not prepared to make some sacrifice to exercise the franchise, they could well be done without; and to pass this Bill would, in a great measure, meet the circumstances of that class of persons who, politically speaking, were most idle and most vacil-day would be broken into. lating and venal. In a former speech, the hon. Baronet the Member for Chelsea pointed out that the hours of polling in boroughs and counties were not the same; that in England and Ireland, also, they were not the same; and that the reason for those variations was that the circumstances of various localities greatly differed. Nevertheless, the hon. Baronet had put his name on the Mr. Assheton He did not think that it was necessary to present a Petition against the Bill, and, therefore, he did not let them know. This was the reason why he was not in a position, like the hon. Member opposite, to present a bundle of Petitions on the subject to the House; and he could only express his regret if, owing to an error of judgment, he had weakened the case of the hon. Members who thought with him by not letting the different associations who were opposed to the Bill" know." A general reason against the Bill was that there was not the least doubt that the proposed extension would give increased facilities for bribery, treating, and personation; and he felt sure that the more hours there were for polling the more time there would be for bribery and treating, and, consequently, the more it would be likely to take place; besides which, the fact that the hours would be extended into the dark hours of the night rendered bribery and the other abuses of treating and personation considerably easier than in the light of day. If the Bill before the House was passed into law, he believed about 85 per cent of the Elections which took place would be closed in the dark; but whether they were closed in the dark or in the light, one thing was certain-namely, that the adding up of the votes could not be finished in time for the declaration of the poll on the same night, and thus another The poll would then have to be declared on the next day, and that meant the additional expense of Returning Officers, clerks, &c., for another day; and he contended that the more they increased the expenses of Elections the more the House of Commons would be what hon. Members opposite said it should not be, and the less likely would it be to have other than wealthy Members returned to it. For those reasons, which he considered very important ones, he moved the rejection of the Bill. Amendment proposed, to leave out the word "now," and at the end of the Question to add the words " upon this day three months."-(Mr. Assheton.) Question proposed, "That the word 'now' stand part of the Question." SIR CHARLES W. DILKE observed, that the hon. Member who had just sat down had made a long and elaborate, and a somewhat humorous speech against the Bill; but had failed to demolish, or even seriously to touch, the very sound arguments of the hon. Member for Birmingham in its favour. The hon. Member opposite had complained that the Liberal Members were treating this subject as a Party question; but were not the Conservative Members open to a similar charge? The question had not been made a Party one in that House in the last Parliament; while, in the House of Lords, the Conservative Party had actually carried an Amendment upon which the present Bill was founded. Owing to the manner in which the Conservative Party were now treating the question, he was afraid that it must now become a Party one; but that would not be the fault of the Liberal Members. The Committee which sat last year to consider this subject had been composed of an equal number of Conservative and of Liberal Members, the casting vote being given by the Chairman in favour of the Conservative view. It was a remarkable fact that, although the Committee were agreed that a grievance on this question existed, and ought to be remedied, the voting in all divisions was conducted on strictly Party principles. The Conservative Party had not opposed the extension of the hours of polling in the Metropolis; and it lay upon them to show why the same principle that applied to the Metropolis should not apply equally to the large Provincial boroughs. There were a large number of towns in the country in which the grievance was almost as great as it was in London, and in which it could be as easily remedied. The opinion of Sir Joseph Heron, which had been quoted, only represented the view of the Town Clerk of Manchester, who, having become accustomed to one system, VOL, CCXLVI. [THIRD SERIES.] did not wish to be bothered with another likely to make him put off his dinner one day in the year to a later hour than usual. But the inconvenience of a Town Clerk was a small matter in comparison with the disadvantage at present suffered by a vast mass of the population by the hours of polling. Artizans disliked being obliged to ask the favour of a holiday from an employer, who was likely to be of opposite politics to themselves, in order that they might record their votes, and in many trades if one or two machinemen were allowed to leave business must come to a stop for the whole day. There was nothing to compel Manchester and Salford, or Newcastle and Gateshead, to have the polling on the same day. Very often in those places the polling was on different days; and some men working in one borough would have to vote in another, as they did not belong to the same constituency as their employers. In such cases, they could not benefit by those general holidays which were granted at Elections in some towns, and which rendered this grievance less in some parts of Lancashire than elsewhere. It was a dog in the manger" policy for Lancashire Members to resist the Bill; but he was sure the Conservative Members for Liverpool would not oppose it, for in that town both political Parties were agreed as to the necessity of extended hours. With regard to the Report of the Select Committee, the Chairman's draft Report was lost by a single vote, one of the Conservative phalanx not having arrived, and the draft of the hon. Member for Glasgow (Dr. Cameron) was carried as the basis of the Report. But, then, the missing Conservative turned up; and, thereafter, the proceedings were entirely changed, every paragraph in that draft Report being either rejected or mangled by the Chairman's casting vote, and the result was the curious patchwork which had been presented. It was thus the Conservatives, and not the Liberals, who had dealt with this subject on strict Party lines. The hon. Member opposite had brought forward the old argument that the franchise was a trust, whereas the Liberals regarded it as a right; but whether a trust or a right, every man who possessed it should be placed in a position to exercise it. The hon. Member said that as many obstacles as possible should be placed in 66 3 H |