LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEY disapproved of the principle of the Bill, and said, that it was admitted that the present system worked well in criminal prosecutions. At present, the reputation of the Attorney General, or of other lawyers instructed by the Solicitor for the Treasury, was as much founded on defences as on prosecutions, and they could afford to be fair, and not to stretch points unduly; but the reputation of these new Public Prosecutors would entirely depend upon the number of convictions they obtained, and it was impossible that they should not be biassed by that.

of a Public Prosecutor, he approved of| it, as he thought it would be useful in its operation by having a tendency to prevent the scandals which now occasionally arose. During the time he was responsible for the discharge of the duties of Home Secretary, he found by his official experience that there were many defects in the existing system of criminal administration; but there was no part of it with which there was so much dissatisfaction as the very large powers exercised by the Home Secretary. A large part of these cases arose from the imperfect inquiry as to the antecedents of the prisoner, with respect to whom, after his trial and conviction, facts often transpired which ought to have been known to the Judge and Jury at the time of the trial. From Scotland, where such inquiries were carefully made, there was not only a larger proportion of convictions to prosecutions than in England, but a far smaller relative number of appeals to the interference of the Home Secretary. The necessity of careful examination when the case was in progress was proved when, after sentence, the Secretary of

State was called on to make fresh inquiries. If every case were, in the first instance, fully investigated, there would be less necessity than now for the exercise of the power vested in the Home Secretary; but its exercise was at times necessary because of the discovery of important evidence after the trial. In his own experience, a man killed another apparently without cause. He was found lying by the side of the murdered man, whom he had not robbed.

He was

tried, convicted, and sentenced to death, and it was only after his sentence that, local inquiries having been made, it was discovered that he suffered from epileptic fits, and that when labouring under them he was dangerous to those who approached him, so much so, that his fellow-colliers had pressed the manager of the mine in which he was employed not to allow him to work with them. In Scotland, in such a case, all the antecedents of the prisoner would have been fully inquired into before the trial, and the Home Secretary would not have been obliged to have recourse to irregular means to discover what the facts of the case were. The Bill, in his opinion, would bring about a change which would be acceptable to the country.

Motion agreed to; Bill read 2a accordingly, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Friday next.

DISQUALIFICATION BY MEDICAL RELIEF BILL.-(No. 6.) (The Lord Aberdare.)

COMMITTEE.

Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee, read.

House in Committee accordingly.

THE DUKE OF RICHMOND AND

GORDON said, that by the Bill, as it originally stood, no one would be disqualified by the receipt of parochial relief in certain cases from exercising the franchise. The question had been considered, and it appeared that the only relaxation of the Poor Law of 1835 was that by the Statute 25 & 26 Vict. c. 83, s. 6, an Act applying solely to Ireland. This provision he proposed to adopt in the Bill. Under the Act in question a person who had obtained medical relief in a Union fever hospital could ask to re-pay the Guardians the cost of that relief, and, if he did so, the fact of his having received it did not deprive him of electoral rights. The noble Duke concluded by moving the Amendment of which he had given Notice, as follows:

In Clause 1, page 1, line 9, after ("family") leave out to the end of the clause and insert ("has before or after the passing of this Act received relief and medical treatment as an inpatient of any hospital or infirmary maintained under the laws for the relief of the poor in condangerous disease, provided such person shall sequence of such patient suffering from any have repaid or tendered to the authority of such

hospital or infirmary the cost of the in-maintenance therein of himself and any member of his family as aforesaid, such cost to be determined according to the average of the cost of in-maintenance in such hospital or infirmary during the half-year preceding the admission of the patient.

"The expression cost of in-maintenance' in

this section shall be deemed to include the expense in and about the maintenance, treatment, and relief of the in-patients of the hospital or infirmary, exclusive of the repairs and furniture thereof, and the salaries, remuneration, and rations of the officers and servants, but inclusive of the necessary expenses incurred in the warming, cleaning, and lighting of the building, and otherwise keeping it fit for use.")

LORD ABERDARE said, that he had a sincere desire that there should be no

improper exercise of the franchise where persons received poor relief. But this was a different matter. It was of the greatest importance for the purpose of preventing the spreading of infectious diseases that persons should not be deterred from accepting the benefits of hospital relief through the fear of losing their electoral privileges. Persons had been, upon the authority of medical officers, persuaded to enter hospitals where they had been maintained under the Poor Law, and, as a consequence, they had been disqualified from voting. That had occurred in several cases, and this Bill was intended to prevent disqualification in future where medical relief only was given. The Bill, as it came from the other House, was defective, and ought not to have been passed in its present shape without some notice from the Government. At present there were two forms of public hospitals, both maintained out of the public rates, one under the sanitary authority, and the other under the Poor Law Guardians. The acceptance of medical relief under the former did not disqualify, but under the other it did; and that was very inconsistent, there being really no substantial distinction in the relief given, nor in the fund out of which that relief was paid for. What he proposed was, that the matter should be left in the hands of the Guardians, and if they found that a man who accepted the benefits of a Poor Law hospital could not pay for his maintenance, he should not be disenfranchised. With that view, he should propose the insertion, in line 7, after "infirmary," of the words "on demand," in the proposed Amendment.

The Duke of Richmond and Gordon

THE DUKE OF RICHMOND AND GORDON said, that if the Amendment were agreed to, and the words "on demand" were inserted, Boards of Guardians would be brought into connection with political questions for the first time since 1832. To his mind, that appeared to be very undesirable; and as he could not find out that there was any great demand from the public for the proposal of the noble Lord he should, therefore, oppose it.

EARL FORTESCUE said, that he quite agreed that if persons sought relief in hospitals they should pay for their maintenance during their illness, or be disqualified from voting. By agreeing to such legislation as had been proposed, they were more and more in danger of pauperizing the population. The Bill was to exempt persons from being paupers, while, in fact, they were receiving relief from the rates. He felt grateful to the noble Duke the Lord President for having made a stand against this Bill, and agreed with him that there would be great danger if they introduced this new element of politics into the Boards of Guardians.

EARL STANHOPE would remind the Committee that all fever hospitals in the Metropolis were under the Poor Laws. If the exception proposed by the Bill were adopted, it would be impossible to draw a line between those who were, or were not, actual paupers. The Amendment of the noble Duke would, however, make a great difference between medical relief and ordinary Poor Law relief, and would maintain the existing principle of the Poor Law. He hoped that the Amendment proposed by the Lord President of the Council would be accepted.

LORD ABERDARE said, he would withdraw his Amendment.

Amendment (The Lord Aberdare) (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn.

LORD DENMAN ventured to think

that neither proposed Amendment would be an improvement of the Bill.

Amendment (The Lord President of the Council) agreed to.

Other Amendments made: The Report thereof to be received on Thursday next.

LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEY rose to call the attention of the House to the action of the Administrator of the Straits Settlements with respect to Muar, and to ask Her Majesty's Government not to uphold this action; and to ask the Under Secretary of State for the Colonies, Whether the Maharaja of Johor continues to make his accustomed payment to the heir of Sultan Aly, late Sultan of Johor? and to move for Papers. The noble Lord said: Although this case is one of the blackest of those which have occurred in the Malay Peninsula, I shall not detain your Lordships long, because I have nothing to complain of in the conduct either of the late or of the present Secretary of State for the Colonies, and because all the details of this affair are stated in a pamphlet published at Singapore, under the title of Punic Faith, which requires an answer from the noble Earl the Under Secretary of State much more than my speech. Muar is a small State which belongs to the Sultan of Johor. The Sultans of Johor had become indolent and had allowed their power to fall into the hands of their Ministers, and the late Sultan, Sultan Aly, had, besides, fallen into pecuniary difficulties, and in 1855 he made a Treaty with his Minister, the Tumonggong, by which he made over to him the Rulership of Johor for a sum of $5,000 and a monthly payment for ever of $500, reserving only for himself the Sovereignty of Muar. This Treaty was negotiated, arranged, and drawn up by British Government officials, and it was attested by the Governor. Sultan Aly was also in the receipt of a small pension from the British Government. In June, 1877, he died, and his son, Tunku Alum, announced his death to the Administrator of the Straits Government and expected to succeed his father. A younger brother of his, however, put in a claim to succeed, on the plea of having been designated by his father as successor, as was asserted by this young man's mother. It is not clear that the Straits Government had any right to meddle between these claimants, whose claims were right

fully to be settled by the inhabitants of Muar; but the Straits Government suggested to the Maharaja of Johor, who is the son of the Tumonggong with whom the late Sultan Aly made his arrangement in 1855, that he should assume the guardianship of the Muar State, although it was known that he was claiming to become its Ruler in spite of the Treaty of 1855, which our authorities were pledged to uphold from the active part which they had taken in its negotiation. The Maharaja, thus encouraged by the Straits Government Administrator, proceeded to insure his election by kidnapping several of the Muar headmen and detaining them in Johor; other headmen were canvassed, and pressure put upon them by the Straits officials, both at Malacca and Singapore. I abstain from troubling your Lordships. with many details which aggravate this case, because they are stated in the pamphlet Punic Faith, and because the case is sufficiently stated and set forth in the despatches of the late Secretary of State for the Colonies. The late Secretary of State wrote on the 3rd of September, 1877, to the officer administering the Government as follows:

"I do not object to the course which I understand you have taken in requesting the Maharaja of Johor, as a temporary measure and pending the settlement of the succession, to undertake the guardianship of this small State, as I gather that some such control is necessary; but the nature of the arrangement should be distinctly understood by all parties, and, above all, there should be no ground for misapprehension on the part of the Chiefs and Native population. The good services of the Maharaja of Johor have been frequently experienced and recognized by Her Majesty's Government; but I am not prepared, with the information I at present possess, succession; but in making choice of one of the to express any opinion respecting this disputed claimants, due attention should be paid to the custom of the country and the wishes of the people, as it would manifestly be impossible, in ritorious they may have been, to impose any order to reward political services, however meRuler upon the inhabitants of this territory against their wishes. When the choice has been ultimately made and agreed to, the new Sultan should be informed that the recognition he will receive from Her Majesty's Government will depend upon his personal merits and the character of his administration, and that as long as he governs his people properly that recognition will be maintained."

I would observe that this last paragraph goes beyond the powers belonging to the British Government. In another despatch, the late Secretary of State wrote