Mr. SITTLER. Could we say that you are quite willing to take this as the first step and that the fog is clearing up, and the League of Women Voters are willing to take this step, with proper amendments!

Mrs. LEONARD. I am speaking from the national level, and all the details in the bill have not been discussed by people throughout the country, but it would seem to us that the Congress, having examined many bills, and those people who believe that there should be some voice in the local government would examine this bill to see if it meets the requirements of the Congress, and the people of the District would have the right to see if it also meets their approval, and we have gone to that point.

Mr. SITTLER. Thank you.

Mr. ABERNETHY. Thank you, Mrs. Leonard.

The subcommittee will stand recessed until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning.

(Thereupon, at 12:27 p. m., the subcommittee adjourned until Wednesday morning, 10 a. m., March 19, 1952.)

HOME RULE IN THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 19, 1952

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

JUDICIARY SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE

COMMITTEE ON THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA,

Washington, D. C.

The subcommittee met, pursuant to adjournment, at 10: 10 a. m., in room 445, House Office Building, Hon. Oren Harris (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Present: Representatives Harris, Abernethy, Teague, Allen, and Sittler.

Mr. HARRIS. The subcommittee will come to order. In resuming hearings on S. 1976 and any related proposal before the committee this morning, our first witness is Mr. Carl L. Shipley. Mr. Shipley represents the Young Republicans of the District of Columbia. Is Mr. Shipley present?

Is Mr. Lloyd Cutler present, representative of the Washington Home Rule Headquarters of the District of Columbia? We will be glad to hear you at this time, Mr. Cutler.

Will you please give your name and address for the record?

STATEMENT OF LLOYD N. CUTLER, WASHINGTON HOME RULE

COMMITTEE

Mr. CUTLER. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, my name is Lloyd N. Cutler. I reside at 1830 Twenty-fourth Street NW. I am appearing on behalf of the Washington Home Rule Committee, in support of S. 1976.

Our committee has been in existence since 1947. Its only purpose is to work for home rule. We include Republicans and Democrats; people born in the South, the North, and here in the District; people of many professions and occupations; people with a typical American cross section of views on any topic under the sun. By and large, we are unanimous on only one issue-home rule.

Most of our two-hundred-odd members regard themselves as permanent residents of the District. We like our town, but we do not like the fact that we have no control over the way it is governed. We have nothing against the individuals in our city government, but we have a fundamental moral objection against being denied the right to vote for our own city officials. We think that if you lived here you would feel the same way, too. Probably most of you have taken part in your own municipal governments, and are proud of it.

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We are American citizens. We live under the United States Constitution. But we are the only American citizens within the continental United States who cannot vote for their own local officials. Yet, on the authority of James Madison, the founding fathers intended that we should have our own municipal legislature.

We believe that you gentlemen on this committee ought to concede to us this fundamental right. We feel sure you would not want to have the municipal ordinances in your own home town made by outsiders who come to your town on temporary visits from hundreds of miles away in Washington. We do not see why the municipal ordinances here in Washington should be made by you gentlemen-outsiders if you will-who live in other regions of the United States. You are our guests here and we are honored to have you. Mr. ABERNETHY. What was that?

Mr. CUTLER. I said, Mr. Abernethy, that we who live here in the District consider you as our guests here.

Mr. ABERNETHY. That is awfully kind of you. don't regard it that way.

A lot of people

Mr. CUTLER. You do great credit and great benefit to our city by meeting here to write our Nation's laws. But does this give you the moral right to run our own schools and our own police force? Even in the occupied territories of our former enemies overseas, you leave these matters to the local citizenry. Wouldn't we be better Americans if we shouldered these local responsibilities ourselves?

We who live here in the District pay over 90 percent of the cost of running our local government with our own local taxes. Federal taxes pay the remainder, but we pay our fair share of Federal taxes as well-more than is paid by the population of many States. One hundred and seventy-six years ago, the principle of no taxation without representation was a fundamental issue over which we fought our Revolutionary War. We feel sure that the members of this committee still respect that principle where their own constituents are concerned. We ask only that you adhere to this same principle for us as well.

There are many other excellent reasons for home rule, but it is this moral issue that American citizens are entitled to manage their own municipal affairs-which our committee urges before you today. There are also many good ways of providing home rule, and these various ways have been presented to this committee in many good bills, of which that introduced by Congressman Auchincloss in 1947 was the first. We think the Case bill is a good bill, and we urge its passage. We have no vested interest in any particular provision of the Case bill; we would be for many other bills that would accomplish the same result in other ways. But the Case bill represents the culmination of 4 years' study of the problem. It has already passed the Senate, and it is the only practical vehicle for achieving home rule this

year.

One final word about national representation. We are for national representation. We are also for home rule. We will take either first, and keep on trying for the other. But national representation was not what the founding fathers had in mind for the District, a fact proved by the need for a constitutional amendment to achieve it. Home rule-a municipal legislature--is what the Constitution authorized us to have more than a century and a half ago. We think it is time for

those who believe in democratic government, and in regional and local control of regional and local affairs, to honor that pledge. Mr. HARRIS. Does that complete your statement?

Mr. CUTLER. Yes, sir.

Mr. HARRIS. Are there any questions?

Mr. ABERNETHY. In all seriousness, I want to expres my appreciation for the welcome you have afforded me to Washington.

Mr. CUTLER. It is just our southern hospitality.

Mr. ABERNETHY. What part of the South are you from?

Mr. CUTLER. I am from New York.

Mr. ABERNETHY. How long have you been here?

Mr. CUTLER. Ten years.

Mr. ARERNETHY. Who do you work for?

Mr. CUTLER. A private lawyer in this city.

Mr. ABERNETHY. How long have you been paying your income taxes to the District of Columbia?

Mr. CUTLER. Since 1945, I believe, when I got out of the Army. Mr. ABERNETHY. What do you think about, when we elect the council, of also electing th city assessor? How would you feel about that? Mr. CUTLER. I have no views on electing a city assessor.

Mr. ABERNETHY. You have just expressed yourself very vehemently on the idea of electing public officials.

Mr. CUTLER. Yes, sir.

Mr. ABERNETHY. But you have no view on the election of an assessor?

Mr. CUTLER. Yes, sir.

Mr. ABERNETHY. You know that he is a very important public official, he is the man who assesses the public taxes.

Mr. CUTLER. If the members of this committee would agree with Mr. Madison's statement that we should have a municipal legislature elected by our own suffrage. I would be perfectly willing to let this committee write the bill.

Mr. ABERNETHY. That is a great trouble as far as the hearings here are concerned. Everyone so far, except Mr. Holliday, has expressed himself on the broad principle of suffrage. No one has criticized or particularly approved in one iota, one line, one sentence, one paragraph, or one period, this 83-page bill. I am serious about it. I wish we could get some advice from the advocates of home rule as to the particular type of bill you want.

It has already been pointed out by many witnesses here that the Federal Government should retain some control over the District, and I want to find out how much control you think they should retain. Do you think the Federal Government should retain any control over the District?

Mr. CUTLER. I believe the Federal Government should retain the same control over a District legislature as it does over any Territorial legislature, the right to change its laws at any time.

Mr. ABERNETHY. Do you mean to tell me that we have the right to change the laws of the Territories anytime?

Mr. CUTLER. Yes, sir.

Mr. ABERNETHY. You do.

Mr. CUTLER. You created the law under which each Territory acts, by passing an act of Congress. You can change that act of Congress. Mr. ABERNETHY. Then you are for statehood, you might say?

Mr. CUTLER. For the District?

Mr. ABERNETHY. Yes.

Mr. CUTLER. No; I am for the status of a Territory.

Mr. ABERNETHY. Would you want an appointed Governor or an elected Governor?

Mr. CUTLER. I have no objection to either. I would be satisfied with either one.

Mr. ABERNETHY. I am serious now. You are strong on the subject of suffrage?

Mr. CUTLER. Yes, sir.

Mr. ABERNETHY. I want to know where you stand. Do Do you favor the appointment of a Territorial Governor or an election of a Territorial Governor?

Mr. CUTLER. I would be perfectly willing to leave that up to the members of this committee.

Mr. ABERNETHY. If you leave that to us, you may not get anything. That is the reason I say that maybe we can get together on something. For instance, how do you feel about appointing a mayor?

Mr. CUTLER. Again I think the question of an appointed or an elected mayor is a detail. I personally would prefer an elected

mayor.

Mr. ABERNETHY. How do you feel about an appointed recorder? Mr. CUTLER. I feel the same way.

Mr. ABERNETHY. How do you feel about an appointed council? Mr. CUTLER. I feel the council, the body that makes the laws for the District, should be elected.

Mr. ABERNETHY. Do you feel that anyone else should be elected? Mr. CUTLER. I have no strong views on that subject. I personally would favor the election of the board of education.

Mr. ABERNETHY. You haven't strained yourself to determine what other officials you would like elected.

Then you have no objection to the appointment of a mayor, school board, a recorder of deeds, and assessor, a highway commissioner, a tax commission, or any of the other things that go to make up the usual municipal government? All you want to elect is the council. Mr. CUTLER. That is where I would like to begin.

Mr. ABERNETHY. Oh, you would like to begin there?

Mr. CUTLER. We have been working on home rule for more than 4 years. We have gone into every detail of every bill, and any bill can be chewed to pieces, and most of the bills on which we have worked have been chewed to pieces.

We would prefer that the principle of home rule be established.

Mr. ABERNETHY. You mean a voice? You understand this isn't home rule, a voice. You mean the principle of giving them a voice in the government?

Mr. CUTLER. An elected legislature.

Mr. ABERNETHY. After you got that, would you then want to have a sitting Member of the House of Representatives?

Mr. CUTLER. Yes, sir.

Mr. ABERNETHY. Do you think he ought to be elected?

Mr. CUTLER. Yes; I do.

Mr. ABERNETHY. What about an elected Senator? How do you feel about that?

Mr. CUTLER. I feel the same way.